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Old 01-12-2011, 10:24 PM
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Default Montana looking to Ban Felt Wading boots! What's your take!

A bill in front of the Montana Legislature is looking to Ban Felt Soled Wading Boots starting in October of 2011. Here is a link to the Bill along with some other additional scientific studies in regards to Aquatic Nuisance Species (ANS) and felt soled shoes. There has been a very good debate on some local blogs and websites, so I wanted to get and idea of what the forum members think of the idea of banning felt! Here are the links!

Montana Bill as it is written in Annotated Code.

http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/2011/lchtml/LC1760.htm

MSU Research grad student Kiza Gates Study on Whirling Disease transportation!

http://etd.lib.montana.edu/etd/2007/...GatesK0507.pdf

In 2007 at Montana State University, graduate student Kiza Gates published the results of her study of the potential for angler movement of whirling disease (WD) In the course of her research she studied anglers’ waders to determine the probability of their transporting WD and discovered that the average angler who does not clean their boots is transporting 16.78 grams (.59oz) of sediment from one access site to another. The amount of sediment was the same for people arriving at a site and leaving a site which means that anglers are moving sediment between waters. Doing some very basic calculations, she determined that in 2005 angler boots moved more than 6,300 pounds of sediment between access sites in Southwestern Montana. Additionally, she calculated that non-resident anglers carried more than 1,600 pounds of sediment into and out of Montana.

The next question she looked at was if WD was being carried between sites in this sediment. Unfortunately, the level of technology available did not allow her to answer the question for WD. However, a New Zealand mud snail was discovered in the sediment recovered from one boot which shows that invasive species are definitely being transported in the sediment carried on waders.

Thus, we know that anglers can transport didymo in this fashion. But, is it being transported this way? Canadian researcher Max Bothwell and his collaborators have examined the spread of didymo on Vancouver Island to try and determine how the species is spread. Although they do not have actual observations of anglers causing new introductions, they concluded that “the pattern of didymo spread among rivers on Vancouver Island correlates with the activity of fishermen and the commercial introduction and widespread use of felt-soled waders in the late 1980s”

It's a very long read with some interesting and controversial findings. Here is a comment from Earl who actually took the time to read all 92 pages of Kiza's paper and his comments about contradictions in her findings.

From Earl:

To better educate myself on the topic, in addition to reading blogs here and at TU, I took the time to read all 92 pages of Kiza Gates’ study. I strongly encourage everyone to read her report. After reading many blog comments and responses, I was surprised at what I actually read in one of the most often cited studies.

First off, out of 106 samples of the 16.78 grams of soil collected from wading boots and waders, 100% tested NEGATIVE (Gates page 47) for the presence of M.cerebralis DNA (whirling disease causative agent). On page 53 she posits that M.cerebralis COULD have been present, but that under her methodology (which she designed for the study) there was a 100% NEGATIVE result. (92% of the boots tested were felt soled, tests were conducted on the Big Horn, Beaverhead, Madison, Missouri, and Yellowstone ).

Secondly, the single above mentioned New Zealand mud snail from the study was a DEAD mud snail. (Although the zebra mussel viability outside of water was noted at 4 days, none was given for the NZ mud snail).

Thirdly, in the section specifically relating to felt, here are her words: “The potential for felt to carry even small numbers of myxospores suggests that introduction of m. cerebralis by anglers is possible although the processes necessary to release myxospores from felt were not explored in this study. Many unanswered questions remain regarding the transport vectors and conditions necessary for the proliferation of M. cerebralis.”

Immediately after this sentence, she concludes her paper with this statement: “However, transport of the parasite on angling equipment materials is possible and I recommend the use of rubber soled wading boots over felt soled boots in M.cerebralis infected drainages.”

The NET result of her seemingly thorough study was that she found ZERO evidence of ANS species being transported by felt, rubber, gore-tex, or neoprene. I found it unprofessional of her to editorialize (she recommended showing a video before purchase of a Montana fishing license, in addition to the rubber over felt comment) on subjects that were not proved (if anything they were 100% disproved) within the scope of her paper.

So what does this mean? I’m willing to entertain the idea that anglers and our equipment are a vector for the spread of ANS. However, I certainly can’t conclude on the basis of this paper that we now require legislation to completely ban felt on Montana rivers. This research is in its infancy, and a lot more work and data is needed before we start passing legislation.

I am encouraged that the topic has generated so much discussion, our Rivers will benefit from an engaged discussion.

One last scientific report from Canadian Biologist Max Bothwell and his colleagues while studying Dydmo on Vancouver Island.

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/wat/wq/stud...ymo-blooms.pdf

The subject is sticky and the science is still very young on transportation of many ANS. Thank you for all that comment on the subject and if you want to keep track of the bill as it passes through the Montana Legislature you can go to the state update site at Montana Legislature
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Old 01-12-2011, 10:41 PM
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Default Re: Montana looking to Ban Felt Wading boots! What's your take!

Ban felt! milt.
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Old 01-12-2011, 10:54 PM
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Default Re: Montana looking to Ban Felt Wading boots! What's your take!

Alaska has already banned felt wading boots starting in 2012, so I figure the other states will eventually follow suit. I got rid of my old felt wading boots early last year.

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Old 01-13-2011, 06:53 AM
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Default Re: Montana looking to Ban Felt Wading boots! What's your take!

While the report isn't conclusive, there is a possibility of a transfer; we should all be good stewards of our precious natural resources. Why take chances when at a reasonably low cost we may prevent problems?

My $0.02 worth,
Dan
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Old 01-13-2011, 07:08 AM
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Default Re: Montana looking to Ban Felt Wading boots! What's your take!

Whatever helps!

I'm surprised they haven't doen it already.
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Old 01-13-2011, 07:24 AM
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Default Re: Montana looking to Ban Felt Wading boots! What's your take!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggie View Post
The NET result of her seemingly thorough study was that she found ZERO evidence of ANS species being transported by felt, rubber, gore-tex, or neoprene. I found it unprofessional of her to editorialize (she recommended showing a video before purchase of a Montana fishing license, in addition to the rubber over felt comment) on subjects that were not proved (if anything they were 100% disproved) within the scope of her paper. So what does this mean? I’m willing to entertain the idea that anglers and our equipment are a vector for the spread of ANS. However, I certainly can’t conclude on the basis of this paper that we now require legislation to completely ban felt on Montana rivers. This research is in its infancy, and a lot more work and data is needed before we start passing legislation.

The NET result of her seemingly thorough study was that she found ZERO evidence of ANS species being transported by felt, rubber, gore-tex, or neoprene. I found it unprofessional of her to editorialize (she recommended showing a video before purchase of a Montana fishing license, in addition to the rubber over felt comment) on subjects that were not proved (if anything they were 100% disproved) within the scope of her paper. So what does this mean? I’m willing to entertain the idea that anglers and our equipment are a vector for the spread of ANS. However, I certainly can’t conclude on the basis of this paper that we now require legislation to completely ban felt on Montana rivers. This research is in its infancy, and a lot more work and data is needed before we start passing legislation.
I could not say it better regarding any State!

Quote:
Originally Posted by HuronRiverDan View Post
While the report isn't conclusive, there is a possibility of a transfer; we should all be good stewards of our precious natural resources. Why take chances when at a reasonably low cost we may prevent problems?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnerney View Post
Alaska has already banned felt wading boots starting in 2012, so I figure the other states will eventually follow suit. I got rid of my old felt wading boots early last year.
I invite both of you to come wade the Pit River here in CA. with me while wearing your rubber soled boots. Its a serious challenge River to wade with studded felt and a wading staff.
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Old 01-13-2011, 08:11 AM
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Default Re: Montana looking to Ban Felt Wading boots! What's your take!

Call me crazy but I am on the rubber sole band wagon just to make sure my footprint is clean. I also get a flu shot every year and wonder if I would have got sick if I had chose not to do anything. I feel we should do what we can to preserve our water ways, why take chances.
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Old 01-13-2011, 09:28 AM
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Default Re: Montana looking to Ban Felt Wading boots! What's your take!

I would like to say that this is inconclusive and such drastic actions shouldnt be taken, but just for the fact that I see tons of people throw a trout a few feet up straight onto current ( which can kill them, especially if they were out of the water too long), I think it's best to be careful. But I don't think they should base a huge decision on one college chick. She's not even a viable authority on these things, and as far as I can tell, the results of her research nearly voided her entire paper. Leaving us with something any idiot can figure out: sand gets caught in the grooves of your boots.
I'm interested to see everyone elses input.
-will
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Old 01-13-2011, 10:14 AM
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Default Re: Montana looking to Ban Felt Wading boots! What's your take!

First: Will, don't know if you ever went to graduate school, but at those I went to, NO student ("chick" or not) would ever get anything published that hadn't passed the critical review of his/her major professor, committee, etc. who ARE viable authorities on the topic of the grad student's research.

Second: interesting reading: The Science of Felt Soles and Waders

Happy kibbitzing,
Gary

Last edited by gt05254; 01-13-2011 at 10:15 AM. Reason: needed a little clearer sentence.
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Old 01-13-2011, 11:03 AM
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Default Re: Montana looking to Ban Felt Wading boots! What's your take!

[QUOTE=I invite both of you to come wade the Pit River here in CA. with me while wearing your rubber soled boots. Its a serious challenge River to wade with studded felt and a wading staff.[/QUOTE]

Tom: I used a pair of Simms felt boots for 20 years and have noticed that as I have aged my ability to wade has degraded significantly. Last spring when I upgraded to the new Simms G4 vibram soles I was thinking the rubber would make my situation worse, but just the opposite has happened. Now when I wade I feel much more in control and I'm not having near the difficulty I had in the past. I take your word for it that the Pit River is difficult to wade and would probably be way over my current capabilities. In my original statement I was just referring to all the press on invasive species and that eventually all of the states will most likely implement some kind of restrictions in an effort to stop the spread. Not that I agree or disagree with it, like the study proved, there was no evidence of wading boots spreading any invasive species.

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