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Old 06-06-2009, 06:34 AM
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Default Stronger Knots for Massive Carp?

Yesterday I had on a massive carp. I would guess it to be 20lb+...... into my backing for the 3rd time and my albright knot broke....

Luckily by diving into the water I was able to grab my line before the fish swam across Lake Erie... I wrapped the line around my hand and broke off the fish.

This has made me re-think the albright knot for attaching my backing to fly line.

I routinely get into fish of this size or larger and while the knot hasnt failed me on previous occasions, I'm now moving forward.

I've been thinking about saltwater knots and what not.'

According to this page from a book, the author says the strongest connection is a loop to loop secured with two bimini's and a loop to loop junction. He also forgets how to show it being done :-)

Fly-Fishing for Bonefish - Google Book Search

I've researched bimini's and they look like a major pain in the arse...

Anyone have any suggestions or can shed some light for me.

Read another article from the carpfather who said the nail knot was stronger than the albright... this differs from what I've read elsewhere but he says to use the nail knot between the backing and fly line...

Fly-fishing for carp (Part 2) with Ian Colin James

Anyone have any input?
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Old 06-08-2009, 10:10 AM
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Default Re: Stronger Knots for Massive Carp?

Hi lindmar,

The Albright is a very good knot and I would be suspect of how it was tied. In Alaska 20lb to 40lb Salmon, even 60lb Kings, are caught all the time with out using a Bimini setup. Do you tie your Albright with a keeper on the tag end? You say your Albright knot broke. When a knot fails it is because it slips. I am not sure what you mean that the knot broke. Your failure could also be caused by using too light of a leader.

You can buy Bimini leaders that already have two Bimini's tied for you. You can get them in 16lb, 20lb and 22lb. They also make a Tarpon Bimini leader starting at a 60lb shock tippet. With a little practice you can tie your own Bimini. It is a lot easier than you think. If you have an old piece of fly line it is great to practice with. Don't try to learn with a light piece of mono.

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Rio Hand Tied Tarpon Leader
Item # GF009$8.95

RIO HAND-TIED "TARPON LEADERS" are the favorite among all of my buddies that guide for tarpon. Super tough 22-lb IGFA Class hard mono with 22-inches between the double biminis. 4-foot overall length. Complete leader and Huffnagle. Pre-straightened. SHOCK SIZES: 60-lb, 80-lb, 100-lb.

Here are some suggestions on how to fasten your backing to your fly line. The best method depends on how heavy of fly line you are using.

1. Using a single Nail Knot.

2. Using a double Nail Knot.

3. Using hollow braided mono with Nail Knots. This is a good methoid for heavier lines. Maybe the strongest method.

4. Using the Albright knot. Tie it with a keeper on the tag end.

5. Using two loops.

I use Pliobond on all of my permanate Nail Knots. Let me know if you need any help with any of these methoids. Here is the Guidebrod braided mono I am talking about in number three. It is not a leader like the label says. It is 50' of hollow braided mono.

Frank

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Old 06-08-2009, 10:40 AM
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Default Re: Stronger Knots for Massive Carp?

Thanks for the response.
I'm thinking it was more of a slip like you said.

AS well, It seems my front end is pretty solid and maybe too solid.

Is it just me or was this site down all weekend?
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Old 06-08-2009, 10:53 AM
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Default Re: Stronger Knots for Massive Carp?

Wow- glad you were able to swim out and save your fly line.

I just use an “ Albright with a lock” to attach fly line to backing. Here’s the standard Albright (without the lock)
The Albright Knot

To make the “lock”, take the tag end of the backing and make 3-4 half hitches over the standing line (backing to reel) as in steps 7 and 8 here:
The Ultimate Guide to Striped Bass ... - Google Book Search

Just be careful when you snug up the Albright to make sure loops around the fly line don’t jump over each other.

Bimini’s are a great knot, but they’re generally used to tie other knots, like Albrights to attach shock leaders or wire bite tippets, loop knots in backing or leaders, or using the doubled portion of the Bimini to tie knots to attach light tippets to heavier sections in a leader with the doubled line coming out of the loop of the Bimini. This can make a bulky knot as far as going through the guides if you use a Bimini knot with doubled backing to tie an Albright or nail knot to the end of the fly line.

If you change fly lines a lot, you could put an Albright to attach fly line to a length of backing, then tie 2 Bimini"s (one in the end of the backing going to the reel, and the other in the end of backing you just attached to the fly line. Then make loops with the doubled line in each Bimini to make loops for a loop to loop connection- just keep the loops big enough to slip a reel or fly line spool through for quick changes.

good luck

mark
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