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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 02-18-2011, 03:12 AM
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Default Re: Midge Presentation

You guys have seen Ralf's video, right?
Midges ascending to pop seem to pause (gathering?), then going. Bouncing back from the "ceiling", some stuck in it, some look lost.
The film (just below the surface maybe 1-6") is where alot of the grub is. And you don't have to chase it, and you're not exposed.
I fish the film. "Small flies, big fish" is the rally cry!!!.
They eat big flies too (Of course), but those lil guys are there year-round, moving and still, (In winter I'd bet 75% of their diet, maybe more.) and are easy to get, and...
"small is safe".



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Last edited by Bigfly; 02-18-2011 at 01:50 PM.
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Old 02-18-2011, 07:35 AM
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Default Re: Midge Presentation

Larry
Can further explain your set up with a two or three fly setup. Tippet size distance from each other and whether you use any weight or not. T ZZZZ
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Old 02-18-2011, 11:18 AM
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Default Re: Midge Presentation

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Originally Posted by Tracker12 View Post
Larry
Can further explain your set up with a two or three fly setup. Tippet size distance from each other and whether you use any weight or not. T ZZZZ
Tracker: On stillwater, I like to concentrate where the ledges, points or drop offs are, so I'm usually in the 8-15 ft depths to start, but don't waste all day fishing that depth if your not getting hits, the fish might be higher in the column, so you have to keep making adjustments until you start getting hits. If I'm using an indicator, I use a slip style because of the long leader/tippet combo. I usually buy 9 ft 4x leaders, then tie a section (18-24") of 4x or 5x flouro tippet to the leader using a surgeons knot, then tie my first fly to the end of the tippet, then I tie another section of tippet to the bend of the first fly using a Clinch knot. If I use weight it will go approx. 8" above the first fly. Last year I started playing around with not using weight and rather using a count down method, this will take a little experimenting by dropping your rig over the side of the boat and seeing how fast it sinks. Say it looks like it is dropping a foot per second (it is just a guess), now when you cast out let the rig set for say 10 seconds and then do a real "SLOW" hand twist retrieve varying the pauses between retrieves. This also works great on water that has big patches of weed growth as you can vary the count down and fish above the weeds or a little deeper between weed patches without making adjustments to your rig. If I'm fishing a weedy river like the North Platte Grey Reef or the lower Green can get in mid-summer, I like to use a completely different setup that has the weight on the vary bottom, the advantage being that the weight is dragging in the algae instead of the flies. In this setup when I tie the tippet to the leader I again use a surgeons knot but I make sure the tag ends are a little extra long, because on the one side of the tag I will tie my first fly. What I'm trying to end up with is a short 4" tag with my first fly attached to the end of the tag. Then at the bottom of the tippet I repeat with another tippet section tied with a surgeons knot and tie the second fly to one of the tag ends, again shooting for a 4" tag with my second fly on the end. At the very end of the rig I tie an overhand knot and just above that I put on some weight depending on the current I'm fishing in. Now when you drift the rig in the current, the weight tends to grab the algae instead of the flies, helps prevent algae on the flies but doesn't completely solve the problem, especially if you have algae chunks floating freely in the water column. On most streams I just tie up the first rig above tying the second fly to the bend of the first fly and having the weight approx 8" above the first fly and setting the indicator (try to use the smallest indicator you can get by with in white or black, never use those bright orange indicators) set about 1 1/2 times the depth of the water column, but again don't stay there all day if your not getting hits. Adjust your indicator and or weights before you start changing flies. Another great technique is to eliminate all weight and use a greased line, in this case you are targeting the upper foot of the water column, this works when there is a hatch coming off, or just change up the rig so it looks like a hopper/dropper, but you are using a small dry fly for the hopper with a small midge pupa/emerger tied to the bend of the first fly.
Another killer technique that Kelly taught me last year that works on Spring Creeks or other very slow moving water is to tie a parasol fly as your top fly and then a nymph and or midge pupa/emerger to the bend of the parasol fly. The reason this is so effective is that the little yarn indicator on top of the parasol fly is super sensitive and works great for those fish that like to just sip in the fly. Hope that helps, I'm sure there are other good nymph rigs out there but that is what I use.

Larry
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Old 02-18-2011, 01:08 PM
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Default Re: Midge Presentation

Larry, we gotta fish. You really covered the material well.
That's whats nice about this midge thing, 1 box of flies, umpteen ways to use them.
A twenty foot leader with a pop off indy, and fish a midge just off the bottom. Or a s-l-o-w wind up retrieve. It can be stripped up from the deep on a sinking line, or suspended on sink tip line or dangling just under a dry (Kelly's style). These different techniques work because the fish feed in different parts of the water column at different times.
But they are always eating midges. The trick is to know which to do when you're sitting there.
No rings or rises, high noon, try deep. Swirls but no backs or noses, fish down a ways and strip up..
See a bulge or back, dangle your offering under the dry. Happier thermoclines make the fish move around to be comfortable. Bright sun can have an effect as well. Maybe sending them down at high noon, but shallow early and late. Clouds may bring them up all day long. In the river, I often use 3 abs, a big heavy nymph, with a little zebra midge dangling 8"down off the bend. No indy, and Zen high sticking. I've mentioned dangling one behind a streamer on the swing. Evil!
I am in testing this year, using the tungsten impregnated leaders (for rivers), to cut down on the count down method you mentioned for lakes (instead of adding weight). Kinda wondered if Mojo and Joni have tried this.
My only hesitation in the info you gave, is the overhand knot trick for split shot. Drop shotting??? I know everybody's doin' it. But I have had prospect clients quiz me whether I did it. Told me later they wouldn't of hired me if I had said yes. Fly snobs? Not even sure it's legal out here. But a deadly technique for sure. I see the logic.
Midge fishing, takes can be so subtle, that when fishing in a lake I bury my rod tip and strip set rather than rod set. Straight line is the shortest distance between two points.
One day last year, I had takes so subtle that I laid the line across my palm and waited to see the line move across it. Maybe an inch, or two. I did this as a kid with bass. They just super slowly swim away with it. Till I did this, they were just picking it up and dropping it without me ever knowing that someone was home.
All time favorite midge expirience was throwing #20 white dry midges on a lake from a boat. It was midnight and no moon, and breaking off VLFs with strong takes on 4x flouo. Couldn't see a thing. But you could hear it. WOOHOO.


Jim
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Last edited by Bigfly; 02-21-2011 at 02:06 PM.
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Old 02-18-2011, 01:19 PM
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Default Re: Midge Presentation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigfly View Post
One day last year, I had takes so subtle that I laid the line across my palm and waited to see the line move across it. Maybe an inch, or two. I did this as a kid with bass.
I've done all the other above things at one time or another, but never this...that is pretty slick thanks for sharing.
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Old 02-18-2011, 02:10 PM
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Default Re: Midge Presentation

Tom, desperate times call for desperate measures, right?
I often say, the reason I babble so much, is I have know way of knowing what might help someone.

Jim
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Old 02-18-2011, 02:18 PM
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Default Re: Midge Presentation

Larry,

Thanks for the best explanation of midge fishing I've gotten, but what do you mean twist retrieve...?
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Old 02-18-2011, 02:51 PM
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Default Re: Midge Presentation

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmith View Post
Larry,

Thanks for the best explanation of midge fishing I've gotten, but what do you mean twist retrieve...?
Shawn: What you're trying to do is a very "SLOW" retrieve, one way to keep the hands busy and still not retrieve much line at a time is to slowly twist the line around the first two fingers on your line hand. That way you keep busy but the line movement is kept to a mimimun and you want to vary the pauses between retrieves.

Jim: That post of yours is exactly why I love this forum, no matter how much you think you know about a certain aspect of fishing there is always someone else that is willing and can provide a great tip (putting the line across the palm and watching the line for movement, great idea).

Larry
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Old 02-18-2011, 03:04 PM
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Default Re: Midge Presentation

Thanks, Larry. I gotta say I feel the same way. This forum is a great resource. Too much to learn, and life is short. We all need help.
I've received important tips from "greats", and the unknown fisherman. The source doesn't matter, just getting better over time.
I paraphrase Newton (not necessarily appropriate), "I stand on the shoulders of fisherman".
Shawn, I highly recommend watching Ralf Cutter's-Bugs of the under world.
Helped me understand better what's going on down there, and why we twist retrieve.
Among many other Epiphanies. Unless you prefer holding your breath and watching bugs through a dive mask. Done that, I like the DVD.
I wish you guys could have seen the light bulb go on, the moment I first did the palm thing. The buggers had been picking my pocket all morning.
Jim

Last edited by Bigfly; 02-18-2011 at 06:57 PM.
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Old 02-18-2011, 05:10 PM
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Default Re: Midge Presentation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigfly View Post
I wish you guys could have seen the light bulb go on, the moment I first did the palm thing. The buggers had been picking my pocket all morning.
Jim
Jim: I think we all have had our pockets picked in the past, this tip will come in handy for those kind of fish. I've always attributed it to being too slow on the trigger, but this should help recognize the take much quicker.

Larry
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