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Old 12-04-2011, 10:16 PM
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Default So here it is; not Merry Christmas, my JOCK SCOTT.

As some will know i set myself a target of Christmas Day to tie a Jock Scott.
I guess i got a little adventurous since i started tying again this year and wanted to punish myself.

I got all the materials together in the last few weeks, and realized mid tie that i'd forgotten one or two. I was basing my material on various sources for the pattern as well as finding good and cost effective subs for the more exotic and expensive materials.
All in all i spent in the range of $150 gathering the required materials. Thanks here goes to Ard, who kindly provided some Jungle Cock eyes, without which i'm sure it would have cost closer to $275 including a JC cape.

So enough waffle. Here is the finished product. I tied it based on Pocono's tutorial on this forum.
4 pics, the half way point before the wing tie in.
Click the image to open in full size.
Right side
Click the image to open in full size.
Left Side
Click the image to open in full size.
Front
Click the image to open in full size.

Couple things to point out.
The hook is way to big (3/0). I only discovered this after making the wings. The wings are a good size, at least 1.5", so smaller hooks, probably size 1/0 will be the way forward.
The indian crow sub was tied in too long, and so i cut it. Future will have the length see here without cutting.
I didnt have the correct shoulder material, but its hardly noticeable.

Marrying the wings was not as painful as i first thought it would be. Finding the fibers in matching lenghts took the most time.
The underwing (white tipped turkey) was tied in to match the shank length, before i realized the wings would be too short. In future the underwing will be matching the wing length.


Over all i like how it turned out for the first ever married wing fly i've tied, including wets. I have the taste for it now, as well as the materials to practice on smaller hooks for the swap i suggested.
Looking forward to learning more and more.

Comments and suggestions welcome. Don't hold back on criticism, constructive or otherwise.

Eunan
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Old 12-04-2011, 11:32 PM
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Default Re: So here it is; not Merry Christmas, my JOCK SCOTT.

Looks good to me!


Honestly, that is one of, if not the most beautiful fly out there.
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Old 12-04-2011, 11:46 PM
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Default Re: So here it is; not Merry Christmas, my JOCK SCOTT.

Eunan, that's a beautiful fly, and looks like a whooooooole lot of work.
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Old 12-05-2011, 04:40 AM
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Default Re: So here it is; not Merry Christmas, my JOCK SCOTT.

Congratulations...Many of us have been waiting anxiously to see the result. Can you tell us the approximate hours at the vise?

Dave
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Old 12-05-2011, 05:44 AM
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Default Re: So here it is; not Merry Christmas, my JOCK SCOTT.

There's a lot of good stuff going on in that fly, Eunan. For a first JS; I'd go out and throw myself a party!

a couple of comments.

It's best to choose the hook size based on the length of the barbs that you have on your dyed feathers. So, start with the feathers, then develop your pattern from there.

If you're using dyed goose, then you're usually tapped out at about a #1; if turkey, then you can sometimes go the full #5/0. Goose, generally, dyes better and gives more vivid colors; whereas turkey tends to look bleached out. But, if you can get good quality dyed turkey, then that's usually the only way to go on larger hooks; unless you can get a hold of white bustard; in which case it dyes up just as well as goose and is much less stiff than turkey.

Try humping both the underwing and the overwing before tying them in. It will help you to get your wings to lie close to the body. When you apply tension to a married wing (or any wing, for that matter), it wants to splay upward from the point where you first put pressure on it. Humping exaggerates the downward curve on the wing so that when its tyed in and starts to splay, it ends up in the right position. There's a lot of trial and error involved in this process, but once you get it down, it's pretty much the same for all of your slip wings; married on not.

Another way to tie in the wings involves using very soft wraps at the start (so that the tendency to splay is greatly reduced), then using tighter wraps as you wind your our thread forward. The softer wraps keep the wing in place and the tighter ones give you the confidence to tie in other materials on top.

I don't' mind the clipped IC sub at all; in fact I think it looks good with a clear demarcation against the GP crest.

On your tail, be sure to tie in the GP crest in only by the stem. If you get the barbs wrapped, then they will separate and go in different directions, instead of staying together in a nice upward curve. Try tying in the crest with the first barbs about 1/2" from the tie-in point. Then, gently pull the stem forward until you're right up against the first barbs. That should give you a nice, firm set with no spayed barbs.

You got some great symmetry in that tie; nicely centered with both the underwing and the overwing and even the BC cheeks look very even, side to side.

Horns aren't easy to mount. Yours look very good to me.

The head look really nice. It's very easy to crowd the head with any of these married wing Salmon fly patterns. You stopped your body well back from the eye and that helped you a lot in that department.

Nice tying!

Pocono
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Old 12-05-2011, 08:49 AM
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Default Re: So here it is; not Merry Christmas, my JOCK SCOTT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocono View Post
There's a lot of good stuff going on in that fly, Eunan. For a first JS; I'd go out and throw myself a party!

a couple of comments.

It's best to choose the hook size based on the length of the barbs that you have on your dyed feathers. So, start with the feathers, then develop your pattern from there.

If you're using dyed goose, then you're usually tapped out at about a #1; if turkey, then you can sometimes go the full #5/0. Goose, generally, dyes better and gives more vivid colors; whereas turkey tends to look bleached out. But, if you can get good quality dyed turkey, then that's usually the only way to go on larger hooks; unless you can get a hold of white bustard; in which case it dyes up just as well as goose and is much less stiff than turkey.

Try humping both the underwing and the overwing before tying them in. It will help you to get your wings to lie close to the body. When you apply tension to a married wing (or any wing, for that matter), it wants to splay upward from the point where you first put pressure on it. Humping exaggerates the downward curve on the wing so that when its tyed in and starts to splay, it ends up in the right position. There's a lot of trial and error involved in this process, but once you get it down, it's pretty much the same for all of your slip wings; married on not.

Another way to tie in the wings involves using very soft wraps at the start (so that the tendency to splay is greatly reduced), then using tighter wraps as you wind your our thread forward. The softer wraps keep the wing in place and the tighter ones give you the confidence to tie in other materials on top.

I don't' mind the clipped IC sub at all; in fact I think it looks good with a clear demarcation against the GP crest.

On your tail, be sure to tie in the GP crest in only by the stem. If you get the barbs wrapped, then they will separate and go in different directions, instead of staying together in a nice upward curve. Try tying in the crest with the first barbs about 1/2" from the tie-in point. Then, gently pull the stem forward until you're right up against the first barbs. That should give you a nice, firm set with no spayed barbs.

You got some great symmetry in that tie; nicely centered with both the underwing and the overwing and even the BC cheeks look very even, side to side.

Horns aren't easy to mount. Yours look very good to me.

The head look really nice. It's very easy to crowd the head with any of these married wing Salmon fly patterns. You stopped your body well back from the eye and that helped you a lot in that department.

Nice tying!

Pocono
Pocono, Thanks for the comments.
The barb length oversight was a rookie mistake. I chose goose because the colors were more vivid. I can still use goose on smaller hooks, and get some turkey for the 3/0 hooks. I basically ordered the hooks 3/0 because i wanted to make sure i didnt run out of space for the wings.
Thanks for the tip on the tail, i really tried for a while to get the barbs not to splay. My last thought was to cut the splayed barbs, but i just let them be. I didnt want to ruin it right at the start.
I'll definitely have to try the humping technique for the wing and underwing on the next fly.
The Horns and head were probably the easiest parts. I bent the horns with my thumb nail as you suggested for the Roofing in your SBS and it worked a treat. Had thought of using two barbs per horn, but it looked too crowded.
THe head was just a matter of clamping down the material left after cutoff, and leaving it all to be cut off at one time certainly helped prevent overloading with thread like i would have done had I cut it off as each piece was tied in.


Quote:
Originally Posted by littledavid123 View Post
Congratulations...Many of us have been waiting anxiously to see the result. Can you tell us the approximate hours at the vise?

Dave
Time at the vice was approx 3.5 hours, between feeding a baby and entertaining the other half and her sister. I'd say total time tying was bout 2hrs 45 mins with interruptions deducted.

Overall i had a lot of fun tying this fly, and cant wait to get some more under my belt.
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Old 12-05-2011, 10:01 AM
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Default Re: So here it is; not Merry Christmas, my JOCK SCOTT.

Eunan, that's just awesome! Way to go!
Gary
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Old 12-05-2011, 10:06 AM
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Default Re: So here it is; not Merry Christmas, my JOCK SCOTT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gt05254 View Post
Eunan, that's just awesome! Way to go!
Gary
Thanks Gary, still needs bit of work. Looking forward to improving it.
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Old 12-05-2011, 12:03 PM
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Default Re: So here it is; not Merry Christmas, my JOCK SCOTT.

For a first time, not to shabby!

I dont know why everyone is so scared of marrying wings together, it really isnt that difficult. And dont worry, the addicition to tying full dress salmon flies will start to get stronger. For a while it was all I was tying, I have a few boxes full of them.
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Old 12-05-2011, 01:25 PM
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Default Re: So here it is; not Merry Christmas, my JOCK SCOTT.

If this is your first experience with any type of classic fly dressing I can only say one thing; it appears that you are better at it than I am and I have messed with this style fly for about 33 years!

The way you finished off at the head looks like the work of any one of the best salmon fly tiers and the body windings are nice and flat. I also notice that the tinsel rib is even and the pitch is consistent start to finish, all of these things are the earmarks of perfection in these flies. I figured that the big hook would prove to be a problem when matching up wing slips, that's why I sent the really big eyes. By the looks of this you will quickly have the handle on proportioning and the flies will be wonderful. I had told another member here that I thought you would surprise us with this fly and I was right on with that guess.

Beautiful
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