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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2012, 01:18 PM
 
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Default Re: Changed Bobbin Type and Solved My Problem!

Bobbins are only half the equation. Threads are the other half.

The more you know about threads, the less likely you are to break the thread; plus you will use the right thread for the fly. Here are some very good articles on tying thread and thread charts from the articles below.

I suggest starting with the UTC brand of threads because it is a flat thread that allows you to control the amount of twist in the thread; and it just about universally available. A flat thread minimizes tying bulk. Whatever thread you choose, stay with a certain brand initially to learn the characteristics of the thread.

Scott Sanchez's article is interesting because of the comments of the famous tiers at the end. Each has their own favorite thread, much like we have our favorite fly rods. Use the rod or thread enough and it becomes second nature. Marve Nolte said it best: He likes his thread because, "The stretch in the nylon tells him when to back off to prevent breakage, and he knows exactly how much room a few wraps takes."

Frontrangeanglers.com - Choosing the Right Thread

http://cdflyfishers.org/Fly%20Tying/...f%20denier.pdf

http://mvff.tripod.com/Reference/Denier.pdf


Click the image to open in full size.



Click the image to open in full size.
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Last edited by silver creek; 02-01-2012 at 01:30 AM.
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Old 02-01-2012, 01:31 PM
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Default Re: Changed Bobbin Type and Solved My Problem!

These charts provide some great information, even though some of it seems contradictory (the breaking strength, for example)

Does anyone know where the missing info might be available from, like the answers to the N/A information on "Aught size" and "Denier ratings"?
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Old 02-01-2012, 01:37 PM
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Default Re: Changed Bobbin Type and Solved My Problem!

WOW! Helpful information! But talk about information overload..... I've never heard of, or seen half of those companies.... I've already accumulated thread from three or four manufacturers, and have seen some differences, but I guess I'm not yet skilled or thread savy enough to understand the differences...

Thank you for the charts! As my skills and knowledge improve, I'm sure that they will prove to be even more helpful!!!
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Old 02-01-2012, 03:42 PM
 
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Default Re: Changed Bobbin Type and Solved My Problem!

Quote:
Originally Posted by stimmy7 View Post
These charts provide some great information, even though some of it seems contradictory (the breaking strength, for example)

Does anyone know where the missing info might be available from, like the answers to the N/A information on "Aught size" and "Denier ratings"?

Denier is explained in the articles. It is the mass in grams of 9000 meters of tying thread, so a 70 denier tying thread would mean that 9000 meters of that thread would "weigh" 70 grams on earth.

Aught is theoretically a measure of diameter BUT no one follows each others sizing so one manufacturer's 8 aught is another manufacturer's 11 aught. Realistically it is just a relative reference for a given manufacturer. It is much like hooks, in that there is no universal sizing standard between manufacturers.

So if you see one manufacturer's 11 aught that is as strong as another's 8 aught, it is likely that they are actually about the same diameter in micrometers. It is not the tables that are at fault; it is the fault of manufactures that try to make it seem that their thread is thinner than another's.

Forget the aught sizing. Look at the thread to gauge the diameter yourself and the breaking strength, whether it is flat or twisted, and buy on that basis.

Click the image to open in full size.

Tying threads are not the only place this sort of shenanigan occur. Varivas, a leader and tippet manufacturer, uses "fake" X sizes to make their tippets seem stronger. Check out their sizing below. Their advertised 8 X tippet is .0038" or 7X in diameter. They have a 11X tippet that should be non existent, but it is .0028" or 8x in diameter. Meanwhile a company like Rio has a true 8X (0.003") tippet @ 1.5 lbs strength vs Varivas 11X (0.0028") at 1.17 lbs. The Rio is 17% stronger that Varivas but the labeling makes it seem that Varivas is better because their 11X is 3 "X" sizes thinner than Rio's 8X.

Fly Fishing Flies - Varivas Midge Super Tippet

Powerflex Tippet | Rio
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Last edited by silver creek; 02-01-2012 at 05:39 PM.
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Old 02-01-2012, 05:27 PM
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Default Re: Changed Bobbin Type and Solved My Problem!

This is a great chart and thread information PDF made by 'Mr. Deer Hair', Chris Helm...
http://www.swtu.org/pdfs/fly_tying/Threads.pdf
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Old 02-01-2012, 05:43 PM
 
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Default Re: Changed Bobbin Type and Solved My Problem!

Thanks Jackster
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Old 02-01-2012, 11:13 PM
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Default Re: Changed Bobbin Type and Solved My Problem!

Went through my tying threads and found 4 spools off "Original HARD SHELL nymph thread" extra strong. Does anybody know anything about these 50yds spools? Also a spool of RST Dynacord Super Thread made in Germany.
Any info?
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:55 AM
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Default Re: Changed Bobbin Type and Solved My Problem!

I believe this "Original Hard Shell Nymph Thread" is what used to be sold under the trade name "NYMO". It was designed to be used as a body thread for midges and you would wrap the body in bands of colors, black, grey or brown with white bands and then coat it with nail polish and it would dissolve on the hook, leaving a hard shell segmented appearing body behind.

We used this on a series of very simple dry flies that were tail, thread body, hackle tip wings and hackle only then coated the body and the same thing would happen. It made a GREAT looking mosquito with black and white, and we also made the bodies out of olive, brown, grey, black and plain white. The patterns cast a very slender shadow and were pretty productive.

It used to be spooled on normal thread bobbins and sold at fly shops in the 60s and 70s and then it disappeared, but the product is still available as a beading thread on odd shaped little spools of small volume in a variety of colors. I saw it about 4-5 years ago for the first time in ages, but didn't buy it to confirm it still had the same properties. (I still have about 10 spools of the original stuff)

---------- Post added at 09:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:33 AM ----------

Thanks Silver Creek-

Some great info here. Yep, it was apparent that they weren't the same, but in days of yore, when thread was Champion Silk and Black or White, it was all the same diameter... mainly because it was originally used by physicians and surgeons for stitches!

Aside from those, there was always Pearsalls but I don't recall it having a diameter rating and it was in rather limited availability in the States (except the Northeast) and there was Danvilles which came in numeric and alpha ratings.

Too bad AFTMA standards aren't applied to leader/tippet sizes (they SHOULD be because they apply to lines!) and thread as well- if not AFTMA, some other standards body for sizing of thread or materials. Sewing Secrets: Confused by Thread sizes?

As for hooks (and beads) we will be left with that horrible legacy forever... even within a given package, you won't always have uniform sizing or shapes or shank lengths.

---------- Post added at 09:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:44 AM ----------

Oh and ODDLY ENOUGH, it turns out there ARE both Federal and Military specs for yarn and thread!! Federal Supply Code (FSC): 8310 1/1
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