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-   -   First time tying Hen Saddle hackle....HELP!!!! (http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/forums/general-fly-tying-discussions/298089-first-time-tying-hen-saddle-hackle-help.html)

comeonavs 09-29-2012 05:26 PM

First time tying Hen Saddle hackle....HELP!!!!
 
So I trying to tie my first Tungsten hot wire prince nymphs using hen saddle as a soft hackle around the thorax.

I get it on fine and it looks good but by the time I tie in the biots on top and whip finish my hackle is clumpy not evenly spread around the thorax.

Doubt the fish would notice but I do ?????


Any tips or tricks from you veterans

s fontinalis 09-29-2012 05:45 PM

Re: First time tying Hen Saddle hackle....HELP!!!!
 
are you using the hackle with the fibers on both sides? if so, are you folding the hackle prior to wrapping it.

I believe the hackle, rather than being wound on, can be stripped of the fibers and tied on as a throat

alternatively, just take a tooth brush and brush the clumps out when you have the fly finished.

comeonavs 09-29-2012 05:52 PM

Re: First time tying Hen Saddle hackle....HELP!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by s fontinalis (Post 487219)
are you using the hackle with the fibers on both sides? if so, are you folding the hackle prior to wrapping it.

I believe the hackle, rather than being wound on, can be stripped of the fibers and tied on as a throat

alternatively, just take a tooth brush and brush the clumps out when you have the fly finished.

Hmmm I don't know. I just pluck a whole feather off the saddle, trim the bottom off up to the good part of the feather. I cut just the bottom fibers off both sides of the stem leaving just a bare nub to tie on. Hackle goes bottom side down to the hook. I then lift it straight up with the hackle pliers. The rotations around and tie it off. I then following Charlie's website instructions hold it back down the hook shank and finish tying it in. It is supposed to create sweeping hackle but I am getting clumps after that last step.

s fontinalis 09-29-2012 06:48 PM

Re: First time tying Hen Saddle hackle....HELP!!!!
 
Gimme half an hour our so to clear some things up and I'll post a photo tutorial of how i do it

---------- Post added at 07:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:06 PM ----------

Start with your feather, in this case a Hebert Hen hackle
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-I...UNSET%255D.jpg

Pull back the fibers from the tip, leaving some intact
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-e...UNSET%255D.jpg

Strip the fibers from the left side, and all the fluff from the bottom
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-q...UNSET%255D.jpg

Tie it in thus
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-V...UNSET%255D.jpg

I made 5 wraps of the hackle - these have thin stems
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-l...UNSET%255D.jpg

Fold the hackles evenly down each side and take a few wraps back to secure them
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-7...UNSET%255D.jpg

I often find some of the fibers from the very top of the shank do not tie down well, so i just snip them off

Bottom view
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-J...UNSET%255D.jpg

Stroked/brushed out
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-C...UNSET%255D.jpg

comeonavs 09-29-2012 07:03 PM

Re: First time tying Hen Saddle hackle....HELP!!!!
 
Awesome wow thank you :worthy:

I tried it without stripping the left side but following your instruction and it worked great.


This forum is awesome

jaybo41 09-29-2012 07:55 PM

Re: First time tying Hen Saddle hackle....HELP!!!!
 
Great tutorial Eunan :thmbup: I am not the tier you are but that's how I've been doing soft hackles when I had similar problems described in avs' post. Really stripping the feather and tying in at the tip were the first two things that came to mind.

Couple of other things are that I actually prefer my biots tied in UNDER the hackle. I just think it makes for a cleaner looking fly. The other is that I looked at Charlie's page and it looks like he's using a feather with a stiffer barb? Not sure what kind of feather you're using but India Hen is pretty easy to work with, though maybe not quite as durable as other feathers. Starling is really nice too. I bring this up because I tried a few a while back with stiffer feathers and I just didn't like the look of it and now prefer something with a fuller softer barb.

Sounds like you're diving deep into tying avs, very cool to see your progression. There are a ton of great tiers here who inspire me to learn and tie something new, Eunan being one of them.

comeonavs 09-29-2012 08:27 PM

Re: First time tying Hen Saddle hackle....HELP!!!!
 
So I am just using a hen saddle another shop that promotes this fly heavily uses. I really like the biot under the hackle suggestion that is awesome


here is how it turned out, Size 12 Hook, 3.25mm Tung bead , 13 wraps of .15lead wire.....should do the trick in acting like a diving submarine

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/u...rePrince-2.jpg

jaybo41 09-30-2012 06:19 PM

Re: First time tying Hen Saddle hackle....HELP!!!!
 
Looking good Avs!

tbblom 10-01-2012 08:24 AM

Re: First time tying Hen Saddle hackle....HELP!!!!
 
I used to think the Hot-wire prince was too gaudy, then I fished it last summer. Great fly! Yours should prove to be deadly!

I think I tied the hackle in first, than tied biots over the top to keep the 'legs' downward. I use hen saddle on most every nymph that is big enough to have legs swaying around. Do up some copper johns and pheasant tails with soft hackle also, they are awesome. Dual color wire copper john(like yellow and green or red and yellow) with a prince nymph thorax is basically a 'psycho prince' which also works great. I make weird combos of tried and true flies and they all seem to work well.
Lastly, using 'centipede leg' material for the legs instead of hackle can give a great look to your nymphs. Psycho prince with rubber legs is great in fast water (so maybe next year?).

PS try some nymphs on Daiichi 1150 curved hooks. Super sharp, IMO better hookup rate, the curved hook lends a curved 'swimming' look to nymphs as they arch forward and back for movement in the water. Look at a swimming bug in the water, they almost always do a 'fetal curve'.

Winter warrior on #16 daiichi 1150 (rainbow warrior with black tinsel and dark dubbing):
http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/fo...er-warrior.jpg

comeonavs 10-01-2012 07:07 PM

Re: First time tying Hen Saddle hackle....HELP!!!!
 
TB,

Thanks for the winter warrior idea, that looks great.

As for what you are saying of just try things, I actually did a hot wire prince with rubber centipede legs and scud back wing case epoxied in (copper john style) and it looks great. I also did a hot wire prince on a TMC2487 scud hook in 14 and use pheasant tails instead of biots on the back end and used opaque blue krystal flash for the wings instead of pheasant tails or soft hackle and it looks really cool.


As the guy at the shop told me the other day, you can try and tie something the fish have seen a million times or try to tie something they have never seen. Seemed like an interesting idea so I cant wait to get out and try some of these oddball's I have tied.


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