The North American Fly Fishing Forum


Go Back   The North American Fly Fishing Forum > Fly Tyer's Round Table > General Fly Tying Discussions

General Fly Tying Discussions Talk about anything somewhat related to fly tying...

Like Tree11Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2012, 09:03 AM
missin44's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Mesa, CO
Posts: 82
missin44 is on a distinguished road
Default Scuds Sizes?

I'm going to be tying some scuds. Sizes can range from 16-10. My question is what size do you typically tie?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2012, 09:35 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Northern California, USA
Posts: 355
stimmy7 is a splendid one to beholdstimmy7 is a splendid one to beholdstimmy7 is a splendid one to beholdstimmy7 is a splendid one to beholdstimmy7 is a splendid one to beholdstimmy7 is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Scuds Sizes?

It depends a lot on what the naturals are like in the waters where you fish. Have you investigated what's in the water?

Generally when I tie scuds, I find out the colors and sizes of what I'm trying to imitate, then tie one size larger and one size smaller of those.
jaybo41 likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2012, 09:42 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,976
silver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Scuds Sizes?

+1 to Stimmy.

Scuds are normally on or near aquatic vegetation so look there for the scuds.

If I were pinned down to one size it would be a 14. Color is another choice. In my local waters they are grey.
jaybo41 likes this.
__________________
Regards,

Silver



"Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2012, 09:47 AM
missin44's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Mesa, CO
Posts: 82
missin44 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Scuds Sizes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stimmy7 View Post
It depends a lot on what the naturals are like in the waters where you fish. Have you investigated what's in the water?
Not really. Just doing some tying for the coming year. I tend to fish all over from the east to Rockies, so I'm looking for that "generic" size. I'm running low on scud hooks plan to get a pack of 50 tomorrow and trying to figure out what size hook I want to get.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2012, 09:54 AM
jaybo41's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: On a trout stream/Suburban Pittsburgh
Posts: 2,510
Blog Entries: 1
jaybo41 has a reputation beyond reputejaybo41 has a reputation beyond reputejaybo41 has a reputation beyond reputejaybo41 has a reputation beyond reputejaybo41 has a reputation beyond reputejaybo41 has a reputation beyond reputejaybo41 has a reputation beyond reputejaybo41 has a reputation beyond reputejaybo41 has a reputation beyond reputejaybo41 has a reputation beyond reputejaybo41 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Scuds Sizes?

+1 to what stimmy and silver have said.

I have typically fished scuds from 12-18's. If I were to pinpoint size, I guess I'd go 14 but like stimmy said, one size larger and one size smaller is a good game plan.

As for colors, gray, orange and olive are the ones I have typically fished with the most success. There is a scud olive colored ostrich feather that is somewhere between a green and gray that I've had really good luck with. Add a hotspot to it and you're in business. The rainbow scud dubbing is excellent too.
__________________
~*~Leave only your footprints~*~
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2012, 10:07 AM
wt bash's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Akron Ohio (don't let that fool you)
Posts: 1,988
wt bash has a brilliant futurewt bash has a brilliant futurewt bash has a brilliant futurewt bash has a brilliant futurewt bash has a brilliant futurewt bash has a brilliant futurewt bash has a brilliant futurewt bash has a brilliant futurewt bash has a brilliant futurewt bash has a brilliant futurewt bash has a brilliant future
Default Re: Scuds Sizes?

As others have said a 14 is a good starting point, you can tie some with smaller proportions to look like a 16 and really jam material (as long as you leave enough gape) to look big and meaty.
__________________
Oh I live to be the ruler of life not a slave
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2012, 10:43 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,976
silver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Scuds Sizes?

What most fly fishers and tiers do NOT know is, that to imitate swimming scuds, the deeply curved "scud hooks" are the wrong shape. Tie the scud pattern on straight hooks. I learned this in the 1980's from Jason Borger's latex scud pattern tied on a straight hook.

See the reference below, back cover, upper left fly.

Reference FlyTyer Vol 6 - Issue 1 - Spring 1983

"First of all, swimming scuds, the kind fish are likely to see, are as straight as a needle and only curl up into the typical scud fly profile when they are crawling around on something."

California School of Flyfishing, Nevada City and Truckee, CA > Entomology > Scuds

So there is no need to buy special "scud" hook to tie a scud. With all the curved scuds we see in pattern books and in fly boxes, a straight scud pattern may look strange but they work!!

Most fly tiers also think the pink/orange scud imitates only a dead scud. This is a popular pattern during fluctuating water levels in tail waters. However, trout take the pink/orange for either a pregnant scud or a dead scud. So orange is another popular color.

"Many anglers capturing or viewing a stationary scud for the first time may consider using a distinct curved hook to imitate their natural profile. This would be a mistake. Fly fishers need to imitate moving scuds darting through the water in an outstretched manner. Only their tail area or telsun hangs down. Curved scuds are dead, resting or feeding. Pronounced curved pattern profiles should be avoided. Successful hook styles include standard shank or a scud pupa to suggest mobile scuds."

"Pregnant scuds often display an orange tint as a result of the eggs contained in an external pouch known as the marsupium. If trout are fixated on pregnant females a dubbing blend tinted with orange dubbing can be key. ….. Deceased scuds, rich in carotene turn orange. As water levels rise marooned scuds are swept downstream into the paths of opportunistic trout. Orange scud patterns are a worthwhile addition to any tailwater fly box. Carotene also transfers to the flesh of any predator and is the cause of the orange flesh of scud stuffed trout.'


Shrimp - Scuds, Entomology. Fly Fishing Philip Rowley

Here's a new patterns that looks promising, although I have never fished it. I would tie it on a straight hook, and I'd tie some with a central orange/pink bead for the pregnant scud.

Epoxy and Bead Scud

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.
mcnerney, mudbug, jaybo41 and 2 others like this.
__________________
Regards,

Silver



"Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

Last edited by silver creek; 11-30-2012 at 11:47 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2012, 05:53 PM
kglissmeyer1's Avatar
Senior Member

 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Rigby, ID
Posts: 1,336
Blog Entries: 1
kglissmeyer1 has a reputation beyond reputekglissmeyer1 has a reputation beyond reputekglissmeyer1 has a reputation beyond reputekglissmeyer1 has a reputation beyond reputekglissmeyer1 has a reputation beyond reputekglissmeyer1 has a reputation beyond reputekglissmeyer1 has a reputation beyond reputekglissmeyer1 has a reputation beyond reputekglissmeyer1 has a reputation beyond reputekglissmeyer1 has a reputation beyond reputekglissmeyer1 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Scuds Sizes?

I'm in agreement that size 14 is about the most common and appropriate size. In my favorite spring creek I like to tie scuds in sizes 14, 12, and sometimes in an extended size 10. Some of the Gammarus varieties are quite large.

I also agree with Silver regarding tying most scud patterns so they are totally or mostly straight. When a scud is swimming it stretches out very straight, but often it will rest in between swimming spurts and revert back to a bit of a curved posture.

I tie my scuds on Dai Riki 125 emerger hooks. In looking at these hooks they appear to be a middle ground hook in curvature, but when the finished scud is completed the bug is more straight than curved. I like the Dai Riki 125 because of the larger gap or gape of the hook thus giving me more hooking power as I set on a fish.

I tie the size 10 scuds on a Dai Riki 280 Hopper hook.

Here are some pics of the flies I use regularly. Amber (looks like orange in the picture, but its more a yellow/gold color) is my favorite and most productive color, followed closely by a gray/olive color:

Here is a natural. Some say the orange spot is the egg sack while others claim it is a parasite living in the scud itself. Whatever it is, patterns tied with a small spot of orange works as a trigger to trout as they key in on this prey:
Click the image to open in full size.

KG's Spring Creek Scud - Amber:
Click the image to open in full size.

Natural amber scud:
Click the image to open in full size.

KG's Spring Creek Scud - Olive:
Click the image to open in full size.

Here is my fly box with scuds and mysis shrimp, along with parasol emergers and, sowbugs and damsels. You can see the colors I use as well as several of the larger size 10 scuds I use in the upper left-hand corner:
Click the image to open in full size.

I fish a lot with scuds and have found some effective and useful patterns. The best thing for you to do is to visit your local scud waters and get some samples from the waters you will be fishing thereby matching the patterns you tie to those the fish are actually eating.

One caution: When using some dubbing brands, be careful to check the color of the dubbing after it gets wet. Many scud blends look real good in the package and you can match them exactly to the picture of a natural, but, when wet, the color darkens considerably. Take some time to experiment and find what works best.

Have fun, a scud fished correctly will bring savage strikes and strong fish like this one:
Click the image to open in full size.

And check out the mouth full of amber scuds in this beast:
Click the image to open in full size.

And notice the amber scud in the top of this cutty's mouth:
Click the image to open in full size.

Best Fishes,

Kelly
mcnerney and jaybo41 like this.
__________________
I fish, therefore I am - but I gotta go to work first..."piscari ergo sum"
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2012, 06:54 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,976
silver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Scuds Sizes?

Nice flies and the fish speaks for itself.

What a beauty!!!!
__________________
Regards,

Silver



"Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 12:44 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Driftless/MRV
Posts: 1,741
itchmesir is a splendid one to beholditchmesir is a splendid one to beholditchmesir is a splendid one to beholditchmesir is a splendid one to beholditchmesir is a splendid one to beholditchmesir is a splendid one to beholditchmesir is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Scuds Sizes?

Check out my "Trout Carrot" over in the "what are you tying" thread.. Pretty sure it's key to success is because it's orange.. like the popular color for a scud.. and I tie it exclusively in size #14 straight nymph hook... Rarely does it disappoint
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Scuds: Antenna and tail or not? famill00 General Fly Tying Discussions 9 02-24-2011 09:12 PM
scuds in North Carolina mcc1961 Southeast U.S. 2 11-27-2009 10:43 AM
Shrimp and scuds MrEsox Share Patterns 3 04-13-2009 04:41 PM
Scuds: Request for Critique CoMtFishing Share Patterns 9 12-30-2008 09:04 PM
What exactly are scuds? dorian.ducker Flies 21 05-11-2008 09:46 AM













All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
2005-2014 The North American Fly Fishing Forum. All rights reserved.