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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2013, 02:51 AM
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Default Re: Material ethics

Drahcirb, I have to ask, what did you do with the lead wire?
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Old 01-04-2013, 06:39 AM
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Default Re: Material ethics

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Originally Posted by drahcirb View Post
Hi.
Also wondering if anyone has any other 'red flags' when it comes to buying materials.
Richard
i would get to know what feathers and such you can have in your possession or what you can pick off the ground. some tyers will go ballistic and read you the riot act if you happen to pick up a molted feather from the ground or from the bird your kitty cat brought to the back door.

dont even pick up birds of prey feathers.

be very careful with fly swap to international destinations especially with material swaps containing feathers. customs agents can and will open packages at random. you could be in serious trouble. (there is a case pending on another forum regarding this subject)


read the following

Migratory Bird Act

Migratory Bird Act (MBTA)

CITES

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Old 01-04-2013, 03:20 PM
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Default Re: Material ethics

Did any of you ever hear about the guy who broke into a museum and just stole bird pelts? He was a classic Atlantic Salmon fly tyer and just wanted to use the real original materials and not the "or substitute". I found the article here; Edwin Rist steals bird pelts 'worth millions' from Natural History Museum | Mail Online

I think we can all safely agree this was a violation of ethics by any standard.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:26 PM
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Default Re: Material ethics

I remember hearing that one when it happened. Crazy story. And yes, veddy veddy bad behavior!
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:30 PM
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Default Re: Material ethics

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Originally Posted by Diver Dan View Post
Did any of you ever hear about the guy who broke into a museum and just stole bird pelts? He was a classic Atlantic Salmon fly tyer and just wanted to use the real original materials and not the "or substitute". I found the article here; Edwin Rist steals bird pelts 'worth millions' from Natural History Museum | Mail Online

I think we can all safely agree this was a violation of ethics by any standard.
Dan, when I read that story a few years back I couldn't believe this kid pulled this one off.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:43 PM
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Default Re: Material ethics

Yeah but he did tie some wicked flies though!
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:10 PM
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Default Re: Material ethics

Like many others I've been using Seals Fur,Lead Wire & many materials which are no longer available for probably 40 years or more however in The Early Days no one heard of such things as Human Rights,Work Place Relations,Ethic Commitees etc, etc,etc,even though they were controlled.
They were originated & now all we see is Buildings full of people working in these areas as in early December I was visiting a Mates Property in Tropical Australia & saw this Firsty Hand on a Particular Issue.
Don't get me wrong many do supply Good Services however many just pass Papers from one to another as no one will make a decision if it's a bit Curly.
As for ethics we all work to our own ethics as each of us have beliefs & like many others I'm also a Hunter as well.
There are Animals & Birds I wouldn't Shoot,or Keep Caged because I have no need for them however I will Shoot Animals doing Damage to Fences & Crops.
So The Bottom line is,like everyone has mentioned,use what you have & use substitutes to replace them if later on you need them.
Brian
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:22 PM
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Default Re: Material ethics

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Originally Posted by Liphookedau View Post
however I will Shoot Animals doing Damage to Fences & Crops.

Brian
That's a good illustration of what's wrong with a lot of the tree hugger types. They would set there and tell you how wrong you are killing those poor little bunny rabbits and ferral kitty cats. It doesn't seem to matter the massive destruction to the native plants and animals they causing. One of my favorite Nat Geo photos is of a guy in Australia wearing a Cat Skin cap it's face right on his fore head. Captioned "I love cats, trouble is can't eat a whole one."
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Old 01-04-2013, 06:34 PM
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Default Re: Material ethics

Hi again
First of all I'm not worried about using anything that came in the kit. He wasn't an old timer but a 30 something year old that used to tie for some shops. I'd just like to know more about the products I'm going to be buying in the future. Didn't mean to stir the pot. The lead I used up and bought lead free wrap. However it's not as dense and I may be going back. And I did throw out the bird of prey feathers. Kinda looked like marabou but much sparser. Anykind of trade for harp (baby seal) fur is illegal in US. Looks like it is bleached and dyed. And the polar bear hair seems to be heavily regulated also. So if I buy from my local shop I should have no concerns. Thats all I need to know.
Richard
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:24 PM
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Default Re: Material ethics

Richard, there's nothing wrong with the occasional stirring. Keeps us all thinking!

You'll be fine buying those materials that are currently legal, as long as it's from reputable vendors.

As far as ethics, you're correct, I'm sure most folks here have a line that we won't cross. I'll use pretty much anything that's legal, but as the others have mentioned, there are products I stay away from, such as Temple Dog, because of what I've read. My issue is that I'm not sure what to believe. Frankly, I don't have a need for it anyway.

I do not have issues with killing animals, and I've spent plenty of time in my life hunting & trapping. IMO, a good argument could be for the use of natural furs & hairs, because it can be a sustainable resource. Natural products also readily decompose. There's plenty of us meat eaters still around too. Not everyone has gone vegan.

It could also be argued that synthetics, which are primarily derived from oil products, could actually be a serious problem. I'm sure you've seen the news & the devastation caused by the off shore BP oil rig spill a few years ago. Synthetics do not readily decompose, and may last for more years than we'll be alive. That to me could possibly be a problem.

Opinions of course will always vary. I still use a good combination of both natural & synthetic materials.

I'm glad you used that lead wire. Would have been a shame to add it to some landfill.

BTW, welcome to this wonderful site & to fly tying! I hope you'll post some flies as you progress.
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