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Old 02-22-2013, 09:37 AM
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Default Re: The Value of a Fly Tying Class

To be honest, I actually think that taking a class (at least for my generation, I'm 23) should be a last resort. Now I don't want everyone to get all bent out of shape. I'm not saying there is no benefit, but I think there is less so than some other, more readily available options.

I started tying about a year ago and did so by purchasing a beginners tying kit. This kit included a video by Lefty Kreh. The video was very well done and obviously taught by one of the best in the business. The overwhelming benefit here is that: 1. You get to learn from an accomplished professional, and 2. You can replay. Once the class ends, you better hope you remembered everything. With a video, you can watch it over and over and over and replay little details that you are practicing or didn't quite catch the first time around.

The videos will also generally teach you to tie more flies than a fly tying class will. Although its nice to know more recipe, the real benefit to this aspect is that every fly pattern is tied differently and learning a new pattern allows you to learn new techniques and tying methods as well as just the materials to add to the hook.

The other resource that I believe is invaluable is YouTube. I understand this may all be different for you guys in the older generations, but for tech savvy people like me, you can learn to tie basically any pattern you want off of YouTube, and in many cases learn multiple ways to tie it. I think that each time you see someone tie a fly, you learn a little something extra by their unique method. The other obvious benefit here is that YouTube is free and you can do it from home, any time you want, and also replay.

In summary, I think tying classes could be valuable if you are someone who really needs to experience something first hand and in person to absorb it, but I wouldn't say its the best way to learn or to gain continuing knowledge. Again, I'm not saying people shouldn't do it, in fact a combination of every type would probably be the best, but it might be worth trying some other methods first and then going to a class if you still aren't getting the hang of it. Hope no one took this the wrong way.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:08 AM
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Default Re: The Value of a Fly Tying Class

What did your parents say when you told them college was a waste of time ?
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:13 AM
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Default Re: The Value of a Fly Tying Class

In my opinion, most of college WAS a waste of time, certainly not worth the amount of money it cost. I think most people that go to college would agree that only a select few classes have stood out to them as actually helpful in their life.

Again, this is a generational thing a well. People my age are more inclined towards online resources than personal visits and in person methods. Like I said, I don't want anyone to take this the wrong way. But I believe I got WAY more out of my Lefty Kreh video than a fly tying class (or even 2 or 3) would have ever provided me. And again, I never said not to take them, I in fact said they were a good idea, but not initially in my opinion (unless you have that type of personality or learning disposition).

Times are a changin'

Additionally, and to your exact reference of college: This speaks to the growing population of people enrolling in online universities and using online resources as their primarily learning methods to get degrees. You can replay the information and absorb it at your own rate, rather than being forced into a time frame that may or may not meet your personal information absorption. Given your statement, you would also be saying that college is a waste of time unless you go to a building to see the teacher. I'm not disagreeing with having a teacher teach you a subject, but the fact that you must physically be in their presence is becoming more and more unnecessary for my generation. Many times, the real money you pay for a college is also to have a fancy well-known name be stamped on your resume. Objectively, it should make no difference what college you go to as long as the material is taught equally. This is why so many people are learning from University of Phoenix online and paying next to nothing for an objectively great education on their own time. For me, having a Lefty Kreh fly tying video is like receiving a Cambridge University education while paying a no-name state university fee.

Last edited by nick k; 02-22-2013 at 10:29 AM.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:22 AM
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Default Re: The Value of a Fly Tying Class

Nick, your point is valid, and those resources are all good ones, but next time you have a tying question, ask the video & see what type of answer you get.

That's one distinct advantage over online or recorded media that personal instruction has, questions can be answered immediately.

People are all different in how they learn, and for some that personal interaction will be far more beneficial. You may not be one of those people, and may be able to obtain all the tying knowledge you need from a video or multiple online sources. Not all can.

How well a person retains what is shown to them will vary individually, but that would also be the case with online media.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:53 AM
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Default Re: The Value of a Fly Tying Class

I agree completely. The method I prefer certainly isn't right for everyone, and you are correct that not being able to ask questions is a disadvantage. Just simply saying that you should think about your learning style before you decide how to go about starting to tie flies. Young people such as myself will often have a much different approach then olden generations.

And as mentioned, it is best to combine all learning methods.
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:06 PM
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Default Re: The Value of a Fly Tying Class

Nick,

You should know that for profit colleges like the University of Phoenix have been investigated by the US Senate. The UOP has paid numerous fines according to Wikipedia and over 60% of their students in 2008/2009 withdrew by 2010 according to the US Senate investigation.

They are the reason that so many students default on their loans. 44% of student loan defaults are from students that attend for profit colleges and universities although only 7% attend for profit institutions. If 44% of the defaults are from for profits like the UOP, they clearly are not cheap and "next to nothing".
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:18 PM
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Default Re: The Value of a Fly Tying Class

First of all. Regardless of what anyone tells you. Every non-public school is "for profit." Secondly, there are some exceptional online colleges out there. And aside from online colleges, there are some incredible open source resources (such as the open source class resource provided by MIT) that people depend on every day for learning the skills they need to build their career. Simply saying that these are useless because they are being investigated is foolish. The idea of an online college is attractive for companies looking to skimp out and make a buck, but some of the dedicated ones do it very well. I have multiple friends who use the MIT resource I mentioned to learn high level coding, econometrics, and mathematics that they would be unable to learn unless they went to a prestigious grad school. Instead, they get all this information for free online and they are able to absorb it after work and on their own life pace.

I'll also point out that public schools and every other type of school have also been investigated for wrong doings, teaching malpractice, and money issues.

It is easy to say that one thing is ineffective because of a subset within the population, that does not mean they cannot be as effective or more. I'm sure there are some VERY bootleg fly tying videos out there, just as some fly tying YouTube videos are horrible. There are, however, some amazing ones. If Lefty Kreh was teaching a fly tying class at the Orvis by my home I would go. But I would prefer to watch my Lefty Kreh video at home and learn to make 6 flies then go see Joe Shmo fly tier at a random fly shop to learn how to make one wooly bugger.

Everything is a matter of circumstance and personal preference. Again, no where in my original comment did I say not to go to a tying class or that they do not provide benefits. All I have simply been saying is to think about your learning style before you decide how to get started. I can tell you that had I started from a fly tying class, I would not be at the level I am today or know a lot of little techniques I learned from Lefty.

It's easy to jump on the bandwagon here and get riled up and argue that I'm telling people not to go to fly tying lessons, but that's not what I'm saying. People see what they want to see, especially out of young people.
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:53 PM
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Default Re: The Value of a Fly Tying Class

I'm cracking up right now guys! Maybe I ought to start FTU - Fly Tying University. Of course that would be ridiculous, but who knows, anything is possible, right?

@Nick: Sure everyone learns differently, and yes online resources are fantastic for learning almost anything. I have saved tens of thousands or dollars thanks to forums, videos, etc on home. car, computer repairs and MX - incredible! But yes here is the issue - a free and open source (FOSS) model allows ALL contribution, so you're going to get the gamut of quality - unfortunately, we all know that the easy route equates to poor quality - hence a boatload of crappy videos versus good ones.... Oh, and another thing, with these SaaS type models - Google, YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, et. al., YOU are the Product.

I see you're from MA - I was once too, but had a good opportunity to come west. I love my old heritage, but man, I gotta say, things are different now back there. But you're a young buck so I'm sure you're having fun. I sure did when I was your age, living in Beacon Hill and partying like rockstar. That is just a memory now. Lol.

http://flytyinguniversity.com is probably available
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Old 02-22-2013, 08:16 PM
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Default Re: The Value of a Fly Tying Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgrphoto View Post
I'm cracking up right now guys! Maybe I ought to start FTU - Fly Tying University. Of course that would be ridiculous, but who knows, anything is possible, right?

@Nick: Sure everyone learns differently, and yes online resources are fantastic for learning almost anything. I have saved tens of thousands or dollars thanks to forums, videos, etc on home. car, computer repairs and MX - incredible! But yes here is the issue - a free and open source (FOSS) model allows ALL contribution, so you're going to get the gamut of quality - unfortunately, we all know that the easy route equates to poor quality - hence a boatload of crappy videos versus good ones.... Oh, and another thing, with these SaaS type models - Google, YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, et. al., YOU are the Product.

I see you're from MA - I was once too, but had a good opportunity to come west. I love my old heritage, but man, I gotta say, things are different now back there. But you're a young buck so I'm sure you're having fun. I sure did when I was your age, living in Beacon Hill and partying like rockstar. That is just a memory now. Lol.

Flytyinguniversity.com is probably available
Of course no system is perfect and people will find a way to ruin any good thing. I actually don't go into Boston itself much. Grew up in Westwood about 20 minutes south, now live a little closer. I just hate driving in Boston.
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Old 02-22-2013, 08:32 PM
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Default Re: The Value of a Fly Tying Class

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Originally Posted by nick k View Post
Of course no system is perfect and people will find a way to ruin any good thing. I actually don't go into Boston itself much. Grew up in Westwood about 20 minutes south, now live a little closer. I just hate driving in Boston.
Yep, that is exactly why I didn't own a car back then. I was 2 minutes from the Charles/MGH stop. Man, what a time. Big job, 5th floor walkup, Nightlife...

You ever fish the Quinny? My father took me there a few years ago and we had a blast fooling brookies and browns. Pretty stretch of water too. I have yet to experience the Swift, however. Heard that's shoulder-to-shoulder on the weekends.
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