Tying Nymphs, how fancy do they really need to be?

[ia_trouter]

I will do my best to focus this as best I can. I have graduated from woolies and am tying my first nymphs. They work very well on my home water so I truly need to do it soon. I have watched a LOT of youtube vids. Most of the ties are complicated with a lot of different materials to get the perfect thorax with lots of flash etc. They are tying them on larger hooks than I really want, and of course it is much easier to get detail in a size 8-10 vs 16-18 I would prefer. My initial attempts have been a Copper John, Prince and Pheasant tail. I do want to tie them beautiful and complicated eventually. I'm not looking for the easy way out in the end. I love tying and want to be great at it someday. But for now.....

Tonight I am fighting the pheasant tail. In size 12 I can tie a very respectable ph-tail, peacock body and ph-wings. It looks good and has proper proportions. Is that good enough to go fishing without adding thin skin and such? Same with Copper John. I can wrap the wire body nice. Start making the thorax fancy and I screw it up everytime so far. I'd like to move on to at leasts 16s, if I try to get fancy now I will be stuck with 8-10s which I just don't think will work so well on my local trout.

 

[mcnerney]

I agree 8-10's are too big for the water I fish also, I also like 16-18's. I wouldn't get to concerned over getting all the flash on. One thing I have found with tying any pattern is that as you tie several, each successive fly gets better, so stick with one pattern until it looks proportionally correct. You might take a look at Charlie Craven's Fly Box, he has like 188 patterns listed with step-by-step details on how to tie each fly.
Charlie's FlyBox - Colorado's Best FlyShop and online Fly Tying Tutorials

Also look for the YouTube video on how Frank Sawyer tied the original PT, you will be surprised at how simple it is and it still catches a lot of trout.

Larry

 

[williamhj]

+1 on proportions. Focus on getting flies proportioned right, tie a dozen at a time, then drop a size. Adding some material later will be easy if you get your tying technique down.

 

[fly_guy12955]

I've about stopped using synthetic 'thin skin' and opting to use natural feather fibers for the wing case. I can just fold it, shape it, blend it,,,better,,and in the end, it looks better...more natural. Does it affect fish,,,na, I doubt it,,I just have gotten used to using natural.
I put on about 75 percent of the thorax,,then tie in a v-shaped snippet of feather so it sticks out both sides and rear-ward,,tie it down,,blend in some more dubbing to cover my tie in carefully, then tie down the wing case.

In the beginning I was starting my wing case too far back on the hook and making it too large. My proportions were off. I'f im doing a wire body like a copper john,,,sometimes I'll take some thicker floss (Cheap craft store type) and hand wind a small body with the taper I want,and then go over it with my wire,,,so I never have to 'stack' wire. Seems to help and be a tad easier than profiling by stacking wire. You really don't need 'much' of a taper,,some tiers practically use none,,but I like just a wee bit of body taper. Another thing I've learned in my 'learning curve' is to NOT crowd the eye in the beginning or surely you will run out of room in the end.

Just a thought or two there pard,,,I'm not God's gift to fly tying,,but I have gotten respectable enough to not be ashamed of what I do tie.

One of the guys here,,I forget who,,gave me the best advice so far...'use far LESS material than you feel the urge to. You can always add more later.' Helped me get away from that 'gobby fat boy' look to my flies and helped them to look more like real insects right off.

Mike

 

[ia_trouter]

I'll check out the sites you mention Larry. I almost had an 18 done but it blew up right at the end so I think I will end the fly tying day on the forum. I just tied a decent #14 and 16 tonight so that is progress. I might just get by with 16s around here. Proportions seem OK. I can get a very nice body with peacock, unless I lose grip right at the end. I don't use hackle pliers on delicate stuff yet as I seem to break the feather usually. Using Dr Slick tools, they seem decent. They are at least as good as me anyway The peacock seems to have sufficient body flash by itself. I am going to try it anyway. Pleased with my tails and wings. They will look good enough once they get wet IMO.

I am cutting the V in a body feather for the wings flyguy. That is WAY easier than cutting individual wings which move everytime you try to cinch them down.

William, tying a dozen of one size before I step down is probably good advice, but then I will have a couple dozen flies that are too big and run out of hooks. I have to order practically everything I need to tie.

BTW I am fishing Teds flies (from the forum) but running out. They work very well, but they are a tough act to follow. Trust me he can tie some pretty stuff in small sizes.

EDIT-I just checked out the Frank Sawyer vids and I sure didn't see any thin skin, whip finishing tool, not even so much as a peacock feather lol. I am over complicating this.

 

[stl_geoff]

William, tying a dozen of one size before I step down is probably good advice, but then I will have a couple dozen flies that are too big and run out of hooks. I have to order practically everything I need to tie.

But the beauty of that is you can tie them big, which I recommend, and when you are done with practice, take a razor to them and cut it all off the hook. Yes you toss a small amount of material but the hook is saved and you have will have boosted skill. Also, don't be afraid to fish the big sizes. Some of the spring creeks here have some monster bugs with hungry fish living in them. I just tied a bunch of size 8 1xl prince nymphs for the one creek. the thing is huge, nearly and inch long!!

 

[bigjim5589]

There are still some excellent nymphs around that are quite simple in design & yet, catch plenty of fish. I generally have tied most nymphs I've used in a style similar to the Hare's Ear. I like them relatively simple, generic & buggy.

Check out such patterns as Ted Trueblood tied. Otter, Muskrat, Fledermaus & Ted's Stonefly and of course the Hare's Ear in it's many variations.

I tie a generic nymph that is nothing more than dubbed rabbit fur, a short tail of marabou & a sparse, soft, grizzly hen hackle collar. I rib it with pearl Flashabou usually. I'll vary it too sometimes with a wing case over the thorax area of whatever I feel will improve it's appearance, such as peacock herl, ostrich herl or even krystal flash. That's as fancy as I'll usually get. I don't bother with cut feather wing cases or legs. Picking out the dubbing to make it more "buggy" is what I do for legs.

Add weight if you like, wire under the body or a bead head. Various shades of olive, & black are the 2 colors I've had the most success with. It's actually a Hare's Ear style variation, but I'll tie them on hooks of different lengths. Tied on a 3X long hook it works well as a Damsel nymph.

 

[Liphookedau]

It's amazing you go some places & The Fish will take large Flies however you go other places & The Fish only seem to like The Smaller Flies even though there are large Insects around.
It really doesn't matter if some Flies turn out a Bit Rough because good Looking ones become a little worse for wear after catching a couple of Fish.
I have one Fly which started out as A Stimulator you should see it now it's retired 11 Fish later & no doubt it would still catch Fish.
Brian

 

[ia_trouter]

I haven't given up on larger flies, but at this particular time of season on the creeks I am currently fishing they are just not producing any bites. Small beadhead nymphs are the pattern the last few weeks. Just how it is at the moment. My woolies even went cold now that I have a bunch of them, but they'll be back in style too.

 

[planettrout]

Most of the nymph patterns I tie are small - #16 - #22, because those work most frequently in the Eastern Sierra tail waters that I fish. The best advise has already been given and that is, to tie at least a dozen of each pattern. On wing cases, I prefer black for May fly nymphs. The most active nymphs of May flies, just prior to emergence, have dark wing cases. If ya' don't like thin skin, scud back or stretch flex - try Zelon, Antron, flexi-floss, Krystal Flash, Swiss Straw, Holo tinsel or a bunch of other stuff that escapes me at the moment...


PT/TB

 

[williamhj]

I feel your pain when you talk about wasting hooks. As you keep improving as a fly tier it will only get worse, you'll look at flies you have lying around and feel embarrassed. I learned to give flies away to friends so I could keep practicing and not end up with a ton of flies I didn't want to fish. Cutting the materials off works fine too. If you haven't already, check out Allen Fly Fishing, they sell good hooks at a good price.

 

[ia_trouter]

I feel your pain when you talk about wasting hooks. As you keep improving as a fly tier it will only get worse, you'll look at flies you have lying around and feel embarrassed. I learned to give flies away to friends so I could keep practicing and not end up with a ton of flies I didn't want to fish. Cutting the materials off works fine too. If you haven't already, check out Allen Fly Fishing, they sell good hooks at a good price.

I think I have about a thousand Allen hooks and I like them a lot. That sure sounds like a lot until I discovered how many sizes and styles they come in. I have started recycling them already as I ran out of beads pretty quick so the ugly flies had to go. You are right though, the small amount of materials wasted on a botched PT or CJ nymph is not a big deal to lose. I did run through a significant amount of nice marabou while screwing up woolies for the fly swap though.

 

[williamhj]

But remember, we're saving money... keep telling yourself that

 

[ia_trouter]

But remember, we're saving money... keep telling yourself that

Savin a fortune. My new Renzetti vise arrived yesterday. I should save more money a lot faster on the new vise. I took my daughter flyfishing for the first time Sunday. If I take her more often perhaps I will save money. That girl can flat catch walnut trees.

 

[ted4887]

Tonight I am fighting the pheasant tail. In size 12 I can tie a very respectable ph-tail, peacock body and ph-wings. It looks good and has proper proportions. Is that good enough to go fishing without adding thin skin and such? Same with Copper John. I can wrap the wire body nice. Start making the thorax fancy and I screw it up everytime so far. I'd like to move on to at leasts 16s, if I try to get fancy now I will be stuck with 8-10s which I just don't think will work so well on my local trout.

Yeah, for the Driftless you'll definitely want to focus in on the 12-18 range. Mostly tying in the 14-18 range.

Do you still have some of those nymphs I sent you as a reference point for the ones your doing? While Youtube videos are nice to have since they show you the steps, having the real thing in front of you can make a world of difference.

If you're struggling with coming up with a substitute for a material that you don't have, just ask the people here. Some of my best patterns are ones that I change up a bit from the original because I didn't have the right material. I know itchmeiser really likes to fish red pheasant tails, instead of the traditional natural colors. I do the same thing with some of my beatis nymphs, copper johns, and as well as buggers. Rather than tying a Copper John with copper or red wire, sometimes I'll use chartreuse or silver. Just to change things up a little bit. Don't have a partridge skin? Find yourself a pheasant skin instead (you live in Iowa... they're everywhere!). Don't have thin skin? How about a spool of mylar flash, or some krystal flash? Even a ziplock bag cut into a thin strip and colored with a sharpie will do the job just fine.

The point is, don't think that your pattern won't work just because it isn't tied exactly like the ones you see in books or on Youtube. Everything is worth a try once. If they don't work, take it home and cut it up with the razor. But unless you give it a try, you'll never know if you have a great pattern.

 

[ia_trouter]

Ted

Yes I do have a few of your nymphs left, but they are a great source of torment as they are small and too perfect. I caught a lot of trout on them. I'll have them replaced soon. May have to settle for 16s this week, and that will probably be just fine. PTs are probably good enough. My CJs need considerable work.

 

[random user]

I cheat on my PTN's:

Tie in the tail and clip the butts.
Tie in the ribbing wire and more tail fibers - wrap the body and counter wrap with the wire.
Tie in a quill slip for the wing case (usually black/brown natural turkey tail.)
Tie in a starling body feather tip first.
Tie in an extra piece of thread and a few herls - twist a brush and wrap.
Palmer the starling through the thorax and tie down.
Fold the wing case down and tie down.

I also have an altoids tin of the butts of muddler wings and tails I will hit with brown permanent marker and dot with black and use these as a wing case slip. Have another altoids box of mallard and wood duck flank sections from Honberg Specials, and will hit these with maker as well and use them. [Wood Duck flank makes great tails and wing cases for a Hare's Ear nymph.]

The palmered starling (or any small dark feather) is optional. Even just a single turn as a collar gives the appearance of legs/gills.

Generally tie these with a under-body of fine lead wire, tiv-er-gake, most of the thorax area.

Not the traditional, or ever the common tie, but it works for me.

 

[MoscaPescador]

I will do my best to focus this as best I can. I have graduated from woolies and am tying my first nymphs. They work very well on my home water so I truly need to do it soon. I have watched a LOT of youtube vids. Most of the ties are complicated with a lot of different materials to get the perfect thorax with lots of flash etc. They are tying them on larger hooks than I really want, and of course it is much easier to get detail in a size 8-10 vs 16-18 I would prefer. My initial attempts have been a Copper John, Prince and Pheasant tail. I do want to tie them beautiful and complicated eventually. I'm not looking for the easy way out in the end. I love tying and want to be great at it someday. But for now.....

Tonight I am fighting the pheasant tail. In size 12 I can tie a very respectable ph-tail, peacock body and ph-wings. It looks good and has proper proportions. Is that good enough to go fishing without adding thin skin and such? Same with Copper John. I can wrap the wire body nice. Start making the thorax fancy and I screw it up everytime so far. I'd like to move on to at leasts 16s, if I try to get fancy now I will be stuck with 8-10s which I just don't think will work so well on my local trout.

Watch this video. It might answer your question.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFFm2lEvj9Y]Andy Burk: Bird's Nest Nymph - YouTube[/ame]

Dennis

 

[fq13]

Yeah, for the Driftless you'll definitely want to focus in on the 12-18 range. Mostly tying in the 14-18 range.

c Don't have a partridge skin? Find yourself a pheasant skin instead (you live in Iowa... they're everywhere!). pattern.

The man speaks truth here. Its October in Iowa. Get thee a shotgun and hie thyself out to a management area. Ground sluice the little *******s if you need to and you're not a bird hunter. We're talking meat and feathers here, not sport. Carefully skin them, scrape the fat and rub the skin with Borax, not salt. Two or three cocks and you'll have a lifetimes supply. Half a dozen and you've got good trading materials that will more than pay for the license. Get hunting. The best part? Even if you don't score, a couple of guys who have will probably let you skin their birds, and if they want the skin on? I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that the feathers are yours if you'll volunteer to pluck them. If someone had made me that offer after a duck hunt there'd have been a stampede to see who could get their ducks to him first.

PS, Cap a bunny while you're at it. You'll find them both in the thick cover you'll be kicking up for birds and #6 shot will work on both. The only difference in treatment is that you want to rub the rabbit with kosher salt and use borax on birds. Pheasant feathers, rabbit dubbing and good food. What more do want?

 

[billyspey]

Tying daily will help the most . The internet is you best source of info . Sizes I use the most are 16 to 22 . Don't over look the midges just thread and extra small wire in silver and copper.