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Old 12-06-2013, 08:54 PM
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Default Salmon Fly Grub Pattern

Thought I would follow the Salmon Fly Tie Along that Pocono did in 2010.

Salmon Fly Tie-Along?

Here is my first attempt at the Grubb Fly. Some things I'm having trouble with:
1. Doing but wraps on the yarn. It gets to a point where the color from one wrap blends in with the other wraps and I can't seem to make out where the butt is of the previous wrap. Any Suggestions?

2. Finding the right feather for the palmered hackle. The feather was twisting and even though most of them could be folded in the correct direction, some were getting caught in the wrap of the quill. How do you choose the correct feather for this fly.

Click the image to open in full size.

Thoughts, Suggestions?
Lee
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Old 12-06-2013, 09:35 PM
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Default Re: Salmon Fly Grub Pattern

Hi Lee,

Looking good to me

I'm not quite sure I understand your point regarding the body yarn warps. If you were to PM your phone number and tell me when would be a good time to chat Saturday I'll ring you up and get things sorted out.

The business of fibers getting trapped and a feather twisting a bit are common. To control the feather I just counter what ever it tries to do that I don't want by twisting in the alternate direction and using the free hand (fingers) to nurse things along. For the fibers which are trapped I keep a sewing needle that I have the butt end imbedded in a wine cork handy and use the fine tip of the needle to keep things orderly as the feather is wound forward.

I was shopping for good Schlappen today wad was quite disappointed with the quality so the thing about finding good long hackles at this time seems pandemic and not just you.

If what I wrote here leaves a void then we can chat.

Ard
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Old 12-06-2013, 09:53 PM
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Default Re: Salmon Fly Grub Pattern

Ard,

Thanks for the response.

Quote:
I'm not quite sure I understand your point regarding the body yarn warps.
Let me better explain. When I wrap the yarn in the first direction, the yarn is wrapping over the thread/hook, so it is easy to wrap butt to butt. When I wrap back over the yarn, I'm wrapping the red yarn back over the first layer of red yarn. For some materials it is easy to do butt wraps because the edges are distinct. However I found that the yarn edges are fuzzy and blend into the first layer of yarn. Maybe my eyes are just not what they used to be (even though I was tying under a magnifying glass). I know in the fly I posted there were a few times that I didn't get the second layer butt to butt. Does that make more sense?

Quote:
I was shopping for good Schlappen today wad was quite disappointed with the quality so the thing about finding good long hackles at this time seems pandemic and not just you.
Would you recommend using Schlappen instead of feathers from a cape (I guess they all come from a cape at some point, but I think you know what I mean), or were you just using the analogy to show the poor quality of feathers?

For the most part when it comes to spending money on feathers, I only pay a premium for hackle I want for my dry's, and then I still only buy mid range saddles and capes. I usually rely on the proprietor of my local fly shop to steer me to the good quality products in my price range. He hasn't steered me wrong, yet.

Lee
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Old 12-06-2013, 10:03 PM
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Default Re: Salmon Fly Grub Pattern

the key to a well wrapped hackle is to fold the fibers.
You can do this by securing your hackle by the tip in your hackle pliers and hanging those of the side of your vise (typically what i use since its right in front of me)

Once thats done, take the wide base of the stem in your left hand (if you're right handed) and with a pair of tying scissors (closed) run the back of the scissors along each side of the hackle. You need to make sure the hackle fibers are stroked back from their normal position so that the barbs are as near to perpendicular to the stem as you can get them.
Pull the scissors towards you and while rubbing the along the stem of the hackle slightly under the horizontal plane of the fibers.
You should see the fibers fold downwards. If you do both sides, the fibers will be folded back.

Now when you tie in the hackle those fibers should be pointing to the back of the hook as you wind the hackle, and all, or at least 99% will lie nicely on the stem, with only very minimal stroking of the fibers as you wind.

Hope this helps

Eunan

---------- Post added at 10:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:58 PM ----------

as to the yarn, i would do one layer only, tail to eye. to bulk up the underbody, use thicker thread (i use UTC 140) or Uni-stretch.

As for schlappen, typically only good for spey flies, though some folks swear by it for hackles on traditional salmon flies. I'd avoid it like the plaque for that use. You can get 5-7 inch stung hackle and that should be plenty long for a body hackle.
The other atlernative is Whiting American Saddle hackles, about $25 for a saddle. Worth their weight in gold as this (with strung saddle hackles) is what i use for the hackles on my flies. If you want a softer look (to look like schlappen) there are always Henny rooster hackles on capes, saddles and in the strung saddle hackle packs, you can use those, rather than schlappen.

Of course, this is all conjecture, you can actually use whatever you like since its your flies

Eunan
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Old 12-07-2013, 12:55 AM
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Default Re: Salmon Fly Grub Pattern

Now we're getting some feed back Hi Eunan,

if you want to do the 2 layer thing with yarns and tinsels in the future I would suggest a jeweler's lamp with magnifier built in for tying. I use a 40 watt spot bulb in mine and don't miss much on details. I believe the glass is a 3 or 4 X magnifying lens 4" in diameter. Home stores have these under 30 dollars and I've been using them since the early 90's. Even when my vision was good as it ever was I found these to help when making #18 or smaller flies as well as minding the fine points on my streamers........
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Old 12-07-2013, 06:26 AM
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Default Re: Salmon Fly Grub Pattern

Eunan/Ard - Thanks for the suggestions. I'l give the scissor suggestion a try. I had a hard time understanding the details in the tie along, but I think I understand what to do now.

I have some packages of strung saddle hackle, but to me the stems seem to stiff and they all seem to have a bend. I don't know if is because of the way they are packaged, the quality of the feathers or that this is what happens when you buy strung hackle. I have this issue regardless of the brand. I'll have to see if I can find the Whiting American Saddle Hackles.

I already use a similar system for my tying bench. Maybe I need to change my light, take my time or a something else. (Sorry for the mess )
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Old 12-07-2013, 06:59 AM
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Default Re: Salmon Fly Grub Pattern

When it comes to the hackles being stiff try soaking in warm water for about 15 minutes before tying them in. This may make the folding easier also and the fibers will be wet and much easier to control. Don't worry about what it'll look like when dry, they tend to end up well for me. The soak makes those stems very pliable.

I don't want to disagree over what kind of hackle to use but if you are going to use the flies you make then I would use whatever will work. I lean toward the Schlappen because of the length of the individual fibers, I like (and the fish like) the long flowing motion the long soft fibers give when in use.

I think the finished grub looks great by the way...........
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Old 12-07-2013, 08:25 AM
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Default Re: Salmon Fly Grub Pattern

You can also unkink bent stems by lightly steaming them
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Old 12-07-2013, 08:52 AM
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Default Re: Salmon Fly Grub Pattern

What is the best method to steam them?
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Old 12-07-2013, 10:16 AM
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Default Re: Salmon Fly Grub Pattern

I do it over the spout off a boiling kettle

---------- Post added at 10:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:53 AM ----------

I do it over the spout of a boiling kettle
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