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Old 06-26-2014, 02:00 PM
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Default Thread Control?

I've been away from fly tying for several years while attending to my wife as she faced some serious health challenges. As vagaries of life go, I'm in a position to get my materials and equipment out of the attic and start tying again.

As I was going through my "stuff", I find the need to restock my thread supply. I am a disciple of Wayne Luallen and practice (as best I can) his thread control techniques. Accordingly, I need thread that I can spin to flatten, split, and control how I place the thread on the hook.

To make an already too long story short, I need help identifying what threads are available that will give me the type of control I've described. With all the offerings currently available to fly tiers, I don't want to make a large investment and find I've purchased thread I can't control/spin as I would like. My old source for thread is no longer available to me.

Any help this group could provide would be sincerely appreciated.

Jeff
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Old 06-26-2014, 02:50 PM
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Default Re: Thread Control?

Hi Jeff,

I'll just give you a welcome to the forum post because I've never delved too deeply into this subject. I've tied down as small as 26 and as large as 3/0 salmon flies but only paid attention to the diameter of my thread and never reached the level of tying you are talking about. We have some very technical tiers and some will no doubt offer their knowledge.

Ard
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Old 06-26-2014, 03:20 PM
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Default Re: Thread Control?

I too do not tie to the degree of detail you are describing however I have found that the finer or almost finest threads are the best for me as you can secure materials better, make finer strands of dubbin, and have smaller heads to your flies. The newer style threads are really nice to tie with. My favorites are the UNi-threads 8/0. Has worked for me but as I said I'm not the most technical tier.
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Old 06-26-2014, 04:01 PM
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Default Re: Thread Control?

These threads work well with that method:

Danville flymaster 6/0...

Danville Chenille Company Inc.

UTC (Wapsi) 140 and 70 denier...

UTC Threads |

Lagartun 74 and 95 denier...best flat thread right off the spool I have found

74 Denier Lagartun X-Strong Thread

Tiemco 16/0 - Umpqua Feather Merchants...

https://umpqua.com/products/fly-tyin...tiemco™-thread

Tiemco has added rust and tan to the 16/0 line-up but it is not in the U.S. yet.



PT/TB
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Old 06-26-2014, 06:28 PM
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Default Re: Thread Control?

I spin counter clockwise to get my thread to lay to the left when I lift it for two loose turns over calf hair,,etc. I spin clockwise to stack my thread flat'ish for heads, etc and that's all I know about. I guess about any standard thread will do that much.
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Old 06-26-2014, 08:05 PM
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Default Re: Thread Control?

??? Confused by your statement. What do you mean to lay it to the left?

For a right handed tyer spinning thread counterclockwise flattens the thread
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Old 06-26-2014, 10:09 PM
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Default Re: Thread Control?

If you spin your bobbin counter clockwise,,and are tying in something,,,were you hold it and maybe have slack,,it will lay over to the left,,,and keeps it from laying over to the right and trying to jump over the eye of your hook. I mis-spoke myself ,,,counter clockwise does indeed flatten the thread.
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Last edited by fly_guy12955; 06-27-2014 at 03:12 AM.
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Old 06-27-2014, 04:19 AM
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Default Re: Thread Control?

ok still don't get the left-right thing or how spinning counter clockwise has to do with the left-right thing but if that works for you then all is good
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http://flytyingnewandold.blogspot.com/
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Old 06-27-2014, 07:27 AM
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Default Re: Thread Control?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyreels View Post
Hi Jeff,

I'll just give you a welcome to the forum post because I've never delved too deeply into this subject. I've tied down as small as 26 and as large as 3/0 salmon flies but only paid attention to the diameter of my thread and never reached the level of tying you are talking about. We have some very technical tiers and some will no doubt offer their knowledge.

Ard
Thank you for the welcome Ard and I appreciate your comments.

---------- Post added at 07:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:09 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by noreaster View Post
I too do not tie to the degree of detail you are describing however I have found that the finer or almost finest threads are the best for me as you can secure materials better, make finer strands of dubbin, and have smaller heads to your flies. The newer style threads are really nice to tie with. My favorites are the UNi-threads 8/0. Has worked for me but as I said I'm not the most technical tier.
Thanks noreaster. Some threads are bonded such that it is difficult to spin them for flatness, split-thread dubbing, or controlling thread placement. If memory serves me correctly; UNI 6/0 and 8/0 threads are difficult to work the way I've described due to their method of manufacture and bonding of the fibers.

---------- Post added at 07:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:19 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by planettrout View Post
These threads work well with that method:

Danville flymaster 6/0...

Danville Chenille Company Inc.

UTC (Wapsi) 140 and 70 denier...

UTC Threads |

Lagartun 74 and 95 denier...best flat thread right off the spool I have found

74 Denier Lagartun X-Strong Thread

Tiemco 16/0 - Umpqua Feather Merchants...

https://umpqua.com/products/fly-tyin...™-thread

Tiemco has added rust and tan to the 16/0 line-up but it is not in the U.S. yet.



PT/TB
Excellent information planettrout; I really appreciate your sharing it with me.

---------- Post added at 07:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:20 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by flytire View Post
??? Confused by your statement. What do you mean to lay it to the left?

For a right handed tyer spinning thread counterclockwise flattens the thread
flytire - let me see if I can add to the great information that fly_guy12955 as already provided.

If the bobbin holder is rotated clockwise, a twist will be placed into the thread such that when the bobbin holder is gently lifted toward the hook, a loop will be formed in the thread that will naturally "throw" to the right. The opposite will occur with an counter-clockwise rotation, throwing the loop to the left.

Many advantages can be found with thread that is judiciously twisted clockwise, counter-clockwise, and untwisted. The amount of twist determines the amount of tightness that the resulting loop will have. Place a small amount of clockwise twist into the thread, lift the bobbin holder and a loop will naturally throw over the hook eye such that with the push of a finger the loop goes back onto the hook forming a very quick and simple half hitch. Twisted thread (to a point) is actually stronger than untwisted thread, as with a rope. Twisted thread is thinner in width, but thicker in height and round versus flat thread. Flat thread will reduce bulk and cover more area in less wraps. Twisted thread will cut deeper into a material. Deer hair, for instance, that has been secured with stronger and more deeply cutting twisted thread may flair too much, but is easily brought back under control with appropriately laid wraps of flat thread. Dubbing twisted onto flat thread can easily slide up to the hook shank or down. (With twisted thread, attempting to slide the dubbing while still maintaining its integrity is very difficult since the dubbing has to spiral with the various twists as it moves up or down on the thread.)

Thread control methods apply to other materials. In order to evenly migrate a twisted ribbing material up the shank (i.e., twisted thread or floss) a clockwise twist will almost automatically lay the rib into position. The tighter the twist, the faster the migration, resulting in fewer wraps. To keep twisted material such as yarn, loop dubbed furs, etc. in tightly adjacent wraps, twist the material anti-clockwise before wrapping. The tighter the twist, the more the material will push back against the prior wrap. Too much twist will actually force the material to crawl over prior wraps. On and on the applications can go.

For example, Mr. Luallen taught me (and many others) that when tying forked tails on spinners and parachutes, that thread control gives tiers an alternative to making a ball of thread or dubbing, and then forking the tails around and/or over that. My preference lies with slender bodies that take on the silhouette of the natural insect with color (when wet) matching the underside of the insect that is being imitated. Through a fairly simple method of controlling thread, there is an approach that works well, does not leave a lump at the end of the abdomen, and allows the use of a wide variety of tailing materials; natural or synthetic.

Sorry for all the comments, but these are the primary reasons I want a thread who's manufacture allows me this level of control. A thread that is bonded or woven generally will not allow such control.
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Old 06-27-2014, 10:07 AM
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Default Re: Thread Control?

I learned more in 3 hours with Wayne Luallen than in months of other instruction.

Wayne was able to explain to me what I didn't know about what I had learned, for lack of a better way to explain it.

His attention to detailed techniques was amazing. In part, this was due to his small pattern tying and also the complex flies he tied, which both meant that every turn of the thread was critical to the end result.
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