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Old 07-04-2014, 05:22 PM
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Default Veevus?

What are the thoughts of those on the boards?

I currently go between Uni and UTC and am needing to order more thread in the near future. I have heard mostly good things about Veevus, the only exception being the lack of color selection. I like both Uni and UTC and really utilize UTC GSP for my big stuff.

Is the Veevus really head and shoulders above these other two, as I have heard?
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Old 07-04-2014, 05:46 PM
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Default Re: Veevus?

I'm a fan of Veevus thread. Use the 12/0 or 14/0 a lot for trout flies. Not pitching all my other thread since it works well also, but I'm happy with the Veevus. For break strength, you may have seen this chart on the Veevus site, but it is helpful. There are others floating around.
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Old 07-04-2014, 05:59 PM
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Default Re: Veevus?

I use Uni. It's cheap and I've never had an issue with it breaking. I will also swipe some of my wife's sewing thread if I'm out of something. It works well, too.

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Old 07-04-2014, 07:23 PM
 
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Default Re: Veevus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by williamhj View Post
I'm a fan of Veevus thread. Use the 12/0 or 14/0 a lot for trout flies. Not pitching all my other thread since it works well also, but I'm happy with the Veevus. For break strength, you may have seen this chart on the Veevus site, but it is helpful. There are others floating around.
William,

This is not against you because I think you believed that their thread was thinner and stronger than their competitors.

I happen to be one who is very, very skeptical of the Veevus chart. Their chart compares threads by aught size which is not a valid comparison and it also compares threads of various materials.

First of all the "aught" system has no standard so that one manufacturer's 12/0 is someone else's 8/0. Naturally, the reader thinks that the 12/0 is thinner than the 8/0 but that is not always true.

If you look at charts that actually convert the manufacturer's "aught" sizing to denier, you will see that the that equal deniers of identical material break at about the same tension.

This makes sense to me. How can one manufacturer's nylon or polyester thread be much stronger than another's of the same material? It can't. The thread manufacturer's are not chemical companies that actually make the synthetic material. So they buy the synthetic and it is the synthetic that determines the breaking strength.

Bonding and twisting can change the breaking strength but then you again have an apples to oranges situation since bonded threads are different that non bonded treads.

See the chart that Christopher Helm has compiled.

Whitetail Fly Tieing | Thread

I have compiled the polyester threads into the chart below so you can compare Veevus to others by denier which is the actual mass of thread in each of the manufacturer's "aught' sizes.

Click the image to open in full size.

Veevus 16/0 is 50 denier and breaks at 12 oz. Eurothreads 12/0 is 45 denier which is less than Veevus but it is a bit stronger at 15 oz breaking strength.

Veevus 14/0 and 12/0 are the IDENTICAL 70 denier and surprise, they both break at 14 oz. Uni 8/0 is 72 denier and breaks at 15 oz.

The bottom line is choose the thread you like and IGNORE the aught ratings. They are totally useless as you can see. It is the material that determines the breaking strength and not some mystical and artificial high "aught" that a manufacture tries to use to fool you into thinking their thread is thinner and therefore stronger than another manufacturer.

If seeing is believing consider the hook below which has been wrapped with 40 turns of the thread. Compare the Uni 8/0, to the UTC 70, to the Benecchi 12/0, to the Gordon Griffiths 14/0, to the Veevus 14/0 and 12/0. These threads are all about 70 denier polyester and they have the identical bulk and they ALL BREAK within an oz. of 14 oz. tension.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Last edited by silver creek; 07-04-2014 at 07:56 PM.
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Old 07-05-2014, 08:01 AM
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Default Re: Veevus?

The Veevus 16/0 and 6/0 are composed of two strands, if your splitting your thread for twisting the dubbing this makes it very easy.
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Old 07-05-2014, 10:16 AM
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Default Re: Veevus?

Regardless of how thread is measured in "aught", "denier", "stranded" or not I'm sticking with veevus threads because I like using it and it works for ME and that's all that counts.

Use whatever size and brand that works for you

It's been mentioned that one brands "aught" is not the same for a different brand but neither is "denier"
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Old 07-05-2014, 11:11 AM
 
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Default Re: Veevus?

Denier is a unit of measure for the linear mass density of fibers. It is defined as the mass in grams per 9000 meters.

Units of textile measurement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Therefore, a 70 denier polyester/nylon/silk tying thread has the same amount/mass of material in the thread regardless of what the "aught" labeling is. Breaking strength will be nearly identical for equal denier thread of identical construction and materials.

The "aught" thread deception is similar to the "X" tippet deception that Varivas performs when it labels its tippet as 9X, 10X, 11X and even 12X. "X" tippet size is defined as 11 - "X" = tippet diameter in .000's. Varivas 10X tippet should be .001" but it is actually .003" or 8X.

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Old 07-05-2014, 11:18 AM
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Default Re: Veevus?

I am with flytire on using what works. I have just about every thread listed on the chart that Silver provided and have used them all, at one time or another. Veeves is an excellent thread and it's color range, in different sizes, is good:

Thread - Veevus

I also use two threads which are not listed on the chart...

Tiemco 16/0:

Spooled - Tiemco 16/0 Thread | BEARSDEN.COM

...they have added rust and tan to the 16/0 line-up. It certainly isn't the strongest thread but it meets my needs for tying small patterns.

Semperfli Nano silk:

Nano Silk Ultra Black, Brown, Copper, Grey, White, Yellow, Olive, Orange, Red PLUS PINK Bundle | Semperfli - semperfli.net

It is a GSP thread like Roman Moser Powersilk and is very strong:




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Old 07-05-2014, 02:42 PM
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Default Re: Veevus?

Denier has its place but the old "aught" system was how thread was designated in 1980 when I started tying flies, that is what I'm used to and as long as it's still in existence today that's how I'll buy MY thread.

When standards for thread are adopted by ALL manufactures then I will also adapt. However, most of us will be dead by then.

Still my choice of thread is 12/0 veevus. Yours may be different
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Poor quality materials are destined to discourage beginner tiers and cause greater expense when the time comes to replace them.

YOUR way is not the ONLY way when tying flies!

Fly tyers can be masters of making things complicated!

You're only limited by lack of imagination. Be creative, experiment.

http://flytyingnewandold.blogspot.com/

Last edited by flytire; 07-05-2014 at 04:17 PM.
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Old 07-05-2014, 07:01 PM
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Default Re: Veevus?

Veevus....


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