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Old 09-30-2010, 12:57 PM
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Default Shopping list

Hi all. So I want to start tying my own saltwater flies. They are just too pricey to pay in shop. I am new to tying and have nothing. In terms of materials, what should I get to get started? If I ask the shop guy I will end up buying shares in the store. I fish in New England, so stripers and blues. Any decently priced vises you can recommend? What makes a good or bad vise? Looking to get that off ebay.
Thanks in advance.
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Old 09-30-2010, 01:39 PM
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Default Re: Shopping list

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshgamble View Post
Hi all. So I want to start tying my own saltwater flies. They are just too pricey to pay in shop. I am new to tying and have nothing. In terms of materials, what should I get to get started? If I ask the shop guy I will end up buying shares in the store. I fish in New England, so stripers and blues. Any decently priced vises you can recommend? What makes a good or bad vise? Looking to get that off ebay.
Thanks in advance.
Josh,
Here's a reality. You may not save much money tying flies. The costs of a good vise, tools, and materials add up. Factor in time, you'll have another cost.

Here's the other reality. What you will get out of tying your own flies is the satisfaction of having a fly the way that you want it. A tweak here and a tweak there can give you the variation that may catch more fish than the stock pattern.

As for materials, you will need the materials of the flies that you plan to tie. My guess is that you will be tying up Deceiver and Clouser type flies. Visit your fly shop and tell the shop guy that you want to tie those flies in certain sizes and colors. You will probably spend about $30 to $40 in materials.

As for vises, what is important will vary from person to person. In the group of fly tiers who I hang out with, each person is in one of two camps: Regal Medallion or full inline rotary (Abel, Dyna King, Renzetti). What is important is that you have a vise that holds hooks well. I would shy away from vises that have stupid plastic parts. I prefer vises that have jaws made from stainless steel for long term durability. It is also wise to get a vise from a reputable brand that will be able to service it years on down the road. I have sent older Regal, Dyna King, and Renzetti products back to their service centers for basic servicing. They were serviced and returned back in a timely fashion.

If you have buddies who tie, ask them if you can tie flies on their vises. You may like the ease and jaw power of a Regal or you may prefer the full inline rotary design of a Dyna King or Renzetti.

MP

Last edited by MoscaPescador; 09-30-2010 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 09-30-2010, 04:43 PM
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Default Re: Shopping list

If you intend to tie up Clousers and Deceivers (as MP suggested), you won't need a rotary vise. I used a Griffin 2A for a few years, and it does what a vise is supposed to do: hold hook tenaciously. It has an adjustable head, and really does hold big hooks (and little hooks) like the most expensive. It's also made in the USA: CLICK HERE FOR BARGAIN PRICE

You can get buy with a single bobbin, and one decent pair of scissors. I like to use a Griffin whip finishing tool. A few spools of thread, and some bucktail,
feathers, krystal flash, and eyes for the Clousers should get you going. Hooks would be helpful too... Head cement or clear nail polish for securing your
thread once the fly is complete, and that should do it. Resist the temptation to tie every possible fly in every conceivable color. That's when tying becomes very costly, and you'll never fish that many flies. I have so many materials from my "I need to tie 100 of every fly I see" phase, and sometimes I find things in the bottom of my tying drawers that leaves me scratching my head in amazement.
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Old 09-30-2010, 04:49 PM
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The two materials I use most are bucktails and saddle hackle. Those along with some flash and I'd be happy.
Most of the other stuff I use is scavenged or craft store stuff. Christmas tinsel, rug yarn, craft fur, sheet foam, lobster buoy foam, Halloween wig hair....
I tie on the same Thompson Pro vice that I've used for the past 25 years
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Old 09-30-2010, 06:12 PM
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Default Re: Shopping list

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rip Tide View Post
The two materials I use most are bucktails and saddle hackle. Those along with some flash and I'd be happy.
Most of the other stuff I use is scavenged or craft store stuff. Christmas tinsel, rug yarn, craft fur, sheet foam, lobster buoy foam, Halloween wig hair....
I tie on the same Thompson Pro vice that I've used for the past 25 years
I am actually considering your suggestion from a previous post and thats to use a vice grip...just to get going.

MoscaPescador, is the not saving too much in money true for saltwaterflies too? Trout flies I can understand, but SW flies are starting at 6 bucks.I lost one 5mins after using it for first time.It hurt. I cant factor my time in as I would be doing it when watching telly and that just costs braincells.

FrankB2, you layed out a good recipe.

Thanks as always gents for your advice.
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Old 09-30-2010, 07:32 PM
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Default Re: Shopping list

Get as many different colors of bucktail you can find! some epoxy eyes and a syringe of 5 min. epoxy. Your set! Even just to started get white and red bucktail, that color combo has accounted for plenty of bass and blues for me.Black and yellow is another good color combo. Tie up some featherless deceivers and your golden vary hook sizes and you can cover a bunker from peanut to full size.
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Old 10-03-2010, 06:36 PM
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Default Re: Shopping list

Josh-

It is tough to come out ahead, even withy saltwater flies--- but on the other hand- the materials are relatively inexpensive at least for the basics, and you can tie all kinds of stuff that sometimes will be hard to find in shops.

You might also check around to see if your local fly shop offers a tying class-- many do offer them this time of year and through the winter and since you're in CT near the LI Sound, the shop may offer a SW tying course.

If you have a decent shop, I'd resist the urge to buy off ebay--- one of the most confusing things starting out is trying to figure out what materials to use, and getting the right stuff for the patterns you're tying. After you've been tying a while you'll have a good sense of what to buy--- and that's a good time to start expanding your search for materials into craft stores, ebay etc. There's a lot of stuff on ebay that are grab bag kits of materials, etc that look like bargains, but may be useless for what you're tying.

And the prices in shops for the most part are the same or similar to the same quality stuff you'll find elsewhere. Using the right materials can make a huge difference.

You'll need a few basic tools and materials to get started:

Vise - key here is getting something that will hold the hook sizes you'll be using rock solid. Not all vises will do this. Cheap imported "bargain vises" with soft metal jaws and poorly machined parts will give you fits. For NE SW you'll probably mostly be tying on size 2 to 2/0 hooks, at least initially. Down the road it might expand a bit to include a few in size 4 (for shrimp, cinder worms, and bay anchovies) to size 5/0 or 6/0 (for large herring and menhaden imitations). Obviously if you also decide to fish in freshwater too you'll want something that will hold a wide range of hook sizes-- perhaps even down into the 20's for trout.

If you do shop for vises make sure the jaws will hold a wide range of hook sizes--either with one set of jaws, or with interchangeable, modestly priced (at around $40) optional jaws.

You have several options for starting out--- cheapest is a pair of vise grips or even a regular bench vise if you have one on a workbench in the basement or your garage. Either should be fine for holding SW size hooks 2 and up if you want to just ease into it and get a feel for tying. Eventually you'll want a real vise, but it should be OK to start with. For smaller size hooks-- like trout stuff, you wouldn't have much clearance and these won't work very well work.

In terms of what to look for, everything after holding hooks securely comes in as a distant second. But some other handy features are a vise that rotates so you can view it from all sides, and the ability to adjust the angle of the jaws up and down, as opposed to a vise with jaws set at a fixed angle. This will also help if you work with epoxy or some of the new UV cured resins for patterns like surf candies etc. For saltwater flies, it helps to have a some clearance between the front of the jaws and the vise stem for tying long tails on streamers. It also helps if the vise is sturdy with a heavy base (if a "pedestal" model) to keep it from tipping or moving around on your desk when cranking down on thread.

Much of it comes down to personal preference, and there are a lot of great choices out there at different price points.

A couple things to keep in mind is that there are different mechanisms for holding hooks with spring clamp jaws, cam jaws and draw/collet.

And vises will differ also based on whether they allow you to adjust the angle of the jaws up or down, and/or allow you to rotate the jaws. here are some examples of vises used for SW flies (there are may others, hut these seem to come up the most often):

non-rotating, fixed angle vises- Jaws are fixed at a 30 degree angle and don't rotate.

Rotating fixed angle- Jaws rotate but are in a metal collar that fixes the angle at 30 degrees. Examples Dyna King Kingfisher $120, HMH Silhouette SX $135

Adjustible angle, 360 rotary - where the jaws rotate but the hook shank doesn't stay in the same plane. You can view the fly from all sides. Regal Medallion with Big Game Jaws ($195 for c-clamp or $290 with bronze pedestal base- sometimes you can find used regal medallions with base for $150 but make sure they have "Big Game" jaws (for hook sizes 22 to 5/0), HMH Spartan $185

True rotary (where the shank of the hook rotates in a constant plane). These vises allow you to view the fly from all angles as the 360 vises, but with the added benefit of facilitating "rotary tying techniques" where for instance you can hold the bobbin in place while you spin the jaws to wind thread around the shank instead of wrapping the the bobbin around the hook shank. Examples include Peak $150, Renzetti Cam Traveler $185, Dyna King Trekker $229 and Dyna King Barracuda $359

If you want to spring for an inexpensive vise, realizing that you'll probably want to upgrade fairly soon you might consider a new Griffin 2A (goes for around $50-60), or a used vintage Thompson model A's (go for around $30-35 or so)

Add some tools with recommendations for decent, good, better

Bobbin to hold thread. Avoid cheap Asian imports, minimum acceoptable a Griffin metal tube bobbin for $7, better Griffin ceramic tube (ceramic tube is less likely to cut thread) for $13-14. More expensive bobbins with ceramic tubes from Matarelli, Tiemco, Wasatch, Dr Slick etc. for $18 and up are all great, but it's handy to have several bobbins for different spools of thread-- you can always add more expensive ones down the road and.

Scissors- 3-4" needlepoint scissors you may already have lying around or can buy from a sewing/craft store for $3-5, Dr Slick Arrow Point Scissors $14

Bodkin- just a needle on a stick, any import $2 Get one with a hex handle so it doesn't ro;l off your desk

Optional but good to have

Whip finisher- you should learn to do it by hand but having a tool is helpful for many folks. There are a couple differtnt types, the easiest to use is a Matarelli or "Matarelli style" import. Dr Slick ("matarelli style" import) $6.50, Matarelli $18

Bobbin Threader any import $2

Luhr Jensen Hook 6" file to touch up hook points as needed $8-9

Stuff you already have:

Needle nosed pliers for pinching down barbs

thin plastic grocery bag- slip a handle over your vise and use it to catch trimmings.

Suggested Materials

hooks: mustad 3407DT (less expensive) or 34007 size 2 and 2/0 A good way to cover different sizes of bait with a limited amount of hooks, small stuff tied on a size 2 without a tail = 2 1/2- 3", big stuff tied on 2/0 with tail = 6"
At some point you'll want to add other sizes as well as other designs like the short shanked eagle claw 254 or 253, or may move to better quality but more expensive hooks like Owner Aki etc.

"Salt water" length or "extra large" Bucktail- white, yellow, olive, chartreuse $5 (tons of uses, in many patterns)

Strung Peacock Herl 1/4 oz 3.50 (for toppings on streamers)

Danvilles Flat Waxed Thread black, chartreuse and white $2 spool ( a good strong thread for SW flies)

Strung SW length 5-7" saddle hackle, white about $3.50 for tails on deceivers

Body Braid: pearl and or silver $3.50 for bodies on flies

Krystal Flash- pearl for a little bling $3.50

SW Flashabou - silver $4

Lead or nontoxic dumbell eyes for clousers (small for size 2, medium for 1/0 or 2/0) 24 for $3

Sally Hansen's Hard As Nails as head cement from any drugstore

With this you can tie clousers, deceivers, bucktail deceivers, glass minnows, bendbacks, ray's flies, and a whole bunch of other stuff.

Keep asking questions. Lot's of folks on the board chase stripers and can help you along with this.
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Old 10-03-2010, 10:00 PM
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Wow.I am always amazed at the time and effort people take to help out a newbie. Thanks so mch for your extensive advice.
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