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Old 01-23-2009, 05:33 PM
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Default Flatwing help

Does anyone here tie a Flatwing? I see sort of how to tie in the tail wings, but I have not seen it in steps that I could make out good from a picture, exactly how they were doing it. Does anyone have a link, or could take a pic to show me exactly how to tie this in?
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Old 01-23-2009, 05:43 PM
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Default Re: Flatwing help

Hi kelkay,

Is this what you are calling a Flat Wing?

Frank
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Old 01-23-2009, 06:05 PM
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Default Re: Flatwing help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Whiton View Post
Hi kelkay,

Is this what you are calling a Flat Wing?

Frank
How to tie flatwings, by Ken Abrames
It is more like this. I believe it requires three feathers in back of the tail section.
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Old 01-23-2009, 08:35 PM
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Default Re: Flatwing help

Hi Kelkay

The flatwings that Kenny ties are adapted from old timey flies used in the North East for trout and land locked salmon like the Nine Three (this one is tied on tandem hooks, but you could tie it on a 4xl or 6xl streamer hook:
Fly Angler's OnLine "Nine-Three - week 154 - Part 90

I bet the Nine Three would be a killer down your way for LM bass.

Kenny’s flies are a bit different. Most of them use loooong saddle feathers extending out from the tail. Finding the right ones can be tricky, with Whiting’s Eurohackles probably being the closest. You want long feathers tapering to a fine tip, but wider base, sort of like a long stretched out spear point, as opposed to dry fly saddles which are long but thin across through there whole length, or strung saddle which is too short. Some of Kenny’s flies can be 18” long---it’s a great pattern if you want to imitate large baitfish without making a bulky wind resistant fly using stuff like EP fibers.

Because the saddles are so long, Kenny came up with a way to prevent the saddles from fouling by creating “platforms” to support them, and that’s the key to their construction. Sorry I don’t have a camera, but I’ll try walking you through the steps:

1. Thread base down the shank of the hook. I like a short shank one like an Eagle Claw 254 (Less fouling than a longer hook), If you want to add some flash you can tie in a strand or two of flashabou or krystal flash here, and in between some of the other steps, but don't over do it.

2. 20-30 bucktail hairs tied on at bend for first step of the tail. Use your thumb nail to press down and spread the bucktail into a fan shape from side to side. This will help stuff from fouling and offer some support for the feathers you put on top.

3. Take some dubbing, or pull some fluff from the base of a feather to use as dubbing. Use this soft stuff to make a little bump, or pillow on the top of the hook shank near the bend. This is going to create a little nest for the next feather, and will keep it centered on top of the shank.

4. Take a cape feather, and tie it on concave side up, nesting the stem in the pillow and locking it down. The cape feather has a thicker stem, and will also serve as a support for the saddle feathers. It’ll be shorter than the saddles, but will serve as a support for the thinner more flexible stems of the longer saddle feathers.

5. Tie in however many layers of saddles, one at a time, concave side down, all on the top of the shank, each one tied down a little forward (towards the eye) of the previous saddle.

6. To finish the fly, you can build a body out of body braid, and make a sparse bucktail collar like a deceiver and top with peacock herl. If you want to get fancy you can tie in saddles flat wing, or tent wing style here too over the top of the bucktail instead of herl.

The way this fly is constructed, the saddles will wiggle around in the water, even in slow current. A lot of people will strip it slowly with long pauses, or let it just drift and swing in current.

I hope this helps. If you're stuck on a step, or something's not clear, just holler and we'll see if we can talk you thru it. there are a couple of us on here that use them, including member Riptide on this forum.

BTW, another fly to try along these lines is a Ray's Fly, using bucktail. Short shank hook, body braid body, and three layers of bucktail, different colors usually white then yellow then olive, with a topping of peacock herl all tied on top of the shank, slightly ahead of each other. First layer is 2" past bend, each layer after is a 1/2" longer than the one before it, with the peacock herl being longest at 4" past bend. Each layer is sparse, like 20 hairs of bucktail, and a topping of 5-6 peacock herls. Work in some flashabou or krystal flash if you want in between one of the bucktail layers. It's a great pattern, uses inexpensive materials, and you can use whatever colors to imitate local baitfish, or whatever colors combo's you can come up with--- including bassy stuff like fire tiger or whatever the hot colors for rapalas, crank baits and other stuff the gear guys use down there.

peregrines
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Old 01-23-2009, 08:58 PM
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Default Re: Flatwing help

Thanks for that explanation. I looked at the Ninety Three. What does it mean 3 saddle hackles tied on flat....does this mean 3 on top of each other, or three kind of separated, or what? Once again I am having a hard time visualizing this. I have never seen these in person, so that really is a disadvantage, unless there is video. I tried to find a video, but could not. I did see a traditional Rhody Flat Wing from Salt Water Edge. But he does not do the Flat Wing style tail from saddle feathers...which is what I wish I could see. I do not know anyone who ties these flies. Sorry for my inexperience here, but I want to do it the right way so the patterns work the way they are supposed to. I was thinking the LMB would tear some of these flies to pieces. I do know they like the deer hair bugs, but I have a friend who ties them...maybe we could trade some flies...hehehe.
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Old 01-24-2009, 09:15 AM
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Default Re: Flatwing help

Kelkay,

Flatwings, like the Nine Three, and the Rhody Flatwing, have the feathers tied on so that the width of the feather is "flat" over the hook shank- the stem is centered above the shank, and the width of the feather straddles either side of the shank, as opposed to most streamers, like a deceiver, where saddles are put on on each side of the shank, and the width of the feather goes up and down-- on a flatwing the feather is rotated 90 degrees, with the shiny side up, as opposed to facing either left or right.

Think of a shrimp imitation, where a feather like 1 mallard flank feather is tied on top of the hook shank with the curve side facing down to imitate the back of the shrimp. Flatwing feathers for streamers would be tied on the same way. The orientation of the feather on a flatwing would like putting your hand out palm side down, as opposed to a 'karate chop" orientation on most other streamers, if that makes any sense.

In the Nine Three, the 3 green saddle feathers are tied on flat directly over each other, one at a time shiny side up, curve down.. I tie them so that each feather stem is tied on just a little bit forward (towards the eye) of the previous one, so there isn't a big bump of thread, but the feathers do lay right on top of each other. The badger feathers, which are tied on next, are tied on in a matched pair, like praying hands with the curve facing in towards each other and a shiny side facing out on either side. In the water on a Nine Three you'll see a thin green stripe in the middle of the fly from the 3 flat saddles.

Here's a pic of one of the Kenny Abrames style flatwings from Mark Gustavson's site. He's a very talented tyer and fly fisherman fro the NE and specializes in striped bass in salt water. This flat wing can be tied in many different sizes, and is a super imitation for larger baitfish. The variety of colors imitate the natural iridescence of fish, and you get an incredibly lifelike effect in the water:
http://www.panix.com/%7Epg/flyfishing/alewife.html


Hope this helps.

peregrines
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Old 01-24-2009, 09:34 AM
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Default Re: Flatwing help

Lately ,I've been tying a variation of a clouser/half and half with a flatwing for schoolie stripers and albies. The flat wing with the lead eyes moves easily as the fly sinks---they look better in the water than in the flybox and they really are catching better, for me, than the standard issue flies.
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Old 01-24-2009, 11:01 AM
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Default Re: Flatwing help

Shorthaul- Very cool idea. Must have a lot of action.
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Old 01-24-2009, 11:03 AM
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Default Re: Flatwing help

Thank you for your help. That makes a bit more sense to me. I know cup down, shiny side up. Is it two down and third one is in between those two...almost like if you had three fingers pointing out? All three are flat down...I was thinking one was tied with the stem, and the other two down. I wish there was a fly tyer here I could just visit and see with my own eyes...how to do it. I think I will just attempt it, and see if it is close.
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Old 01-24-2009, 11:25 AM
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Default Re: Flatwing help

On the Abrames style, after you tie the bucktail in and add the cape feather cup side up, the saddles are layered one over the other cup side down, nothing in between unless you want to add a strand or two of flash between one or two of the layers.

And on the Nine Three, those green saddle feathers are tied in one over the other, cup side down, nuthin' in between. All feathers are tied in by the stem, on top of the shank. The Nine Three then has a pair of badger saddles, cups together tied like a deceiver tail, with the width of the feather going up and down like a regular feather wing streamer. You tie them in by their stems over and slightly ahead of the green saddles.

I'm all out of flatwing saddles right now, or I'd offer to put a few flies in the mail. If you want to PM your address, I'll tie something up with what i have, just so you can see what the construction looks like, and plop it in the mail, but they'll look pretty ugly--

peregrines
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