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-   -   Streamer question (http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/forums/general-fly-tying-discussions/7761-streamer-question.html)

axle27 02-06-2009 08:44 AM

Streamer question
 
I'm new to tying, so I have a question. Concerning freshwater streamers, is it taboo to tie a streamer with the hook up instead of down? I've seen saltwater streamers like this, but didn't know if this was an issue for freshwater.

Opinions? Advise? Clubbings?

Frank Whiton 02-06-2009 09:00 AM

Re: Streamer question
 
Hi axle27,

Sure you can tie with the hook up. I believe the original Clouser minnow was tied for Bass fishing. You can also use a weed guard if you are fishing cover that Bass use. So just use your imagination and incorporate some of the features you have used in saltwater.

Frank

jdorsey61 02-06-2009 09:02 AM

Re: Streamer question
 
Tie them however you think is appropriate for the conditions. I tie some of my streamers upside down, too. In fact, when I tie larger streamers for bass, I always do. At one time, Mustad made a hook designed for just that (called a keel hook). Don't know if they still make them.

BigCliff 02-06-2009 10:10 AM

Re: Streamer question
 
If so, this moderator is almost permanently taboo. When the poppers aren't working, I only take a Clouser off to tie on a marabou minnow, which also runs upside down, or a redneck rabbit/money bunny- another upsidedowner.

Frank's right, the Clouser was indeed designed for catching smallmouth bass in rivers.

Cliff's rule for the day: Only worry about taboos when there's a grandma or a customer in the room. Life's too short to fuss over such minutiae.

arfishinbear 02-06-2009 10:11 AM

Re: Streamer question
 
I ty alot of my freash ater streamers hook up, and crawdad patterns also, make them alot less likely to snag on rocks and cover. The streamers I am tying for the streamer fly swap I just set up are tied hook up.
Bear

axle27 02-06-2009 10:31 AM

Re: Streamer question
 
I kinda figured as much, just wanted some peeps with experience in this to let me know.

I'm tying a few for a friend (a mutual friend). He's been very encouraging to me in this endeavor. Funny how someone across the continent can be so encouraging and helpful.

peregrines 02-06-2009 11:32 AM

Re: Streamer question
 
Axle,

It's good to see you're so into it. You're a tying machine.

Just test one by taking it for a swim on some mono in a sink before you tie up a mess to make sure it rides hook up.

Most of the time you'll need some weight to flip the hook (like the lead eyes on a clouser or crawfish pattern tied on the top of the shank). It's a little trickier to do with just materials.

You can also use different hooks without weight like a 60 degree worm hook used for plastic worms, or on patterns like "Bendbacks" where you bend the shank of the hook near the eye with a pair of pliers. I use both in SW and for fishing FW bass when I want something I can slow strip thru weed beds, but haven't used either of them for trout. Here's a bendback:

How to Tie a Bendback Fly | eHow.com

Jdorsey- From time to time you can still find the old Mustad #79666 Keel Hooks for sale on Ebay etc but theyíre no longer in production. I caught one of my first trout on a one back in the 70's, in WV on a Black Ghost near Seneca Rocks in a deep pool. Still remember it.

The only caveat Iíd offer is that there is a slightly increased risk to the fish in using them with a chance that the hook point can brain the fish or come out through an eye. I brained a small striped bass once on a clouser. Itís only happened once to me but I felt terrible about it. Much more of a freak chance occurrence than something that happens a lot, but Iíll throw it out there, it might be something to consider especially if you fish for small wild stream trout.

What patterns were you planning to tie?

peregrines

axle27 02-06-2009 11:41 AM

Re: Streamer question
 
Peregrines,

Seneca Rocks, eh? That is my home waters, although it is a bit far from me. I've fished an area around Cabins, WV for the last two years. It's privately owned and the guy stocks it. Some nice fish in there.

I'm not really following any patterns. It tied a few in another post that you can see:

http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/fo...unny-8809.html

I'm just messing around with what little materials I do have. Trying what I can.

Da Ax

peregrines 02-06-2009 12:08 PM

Re: Streamer question
 
Axle,

I haven't been back in a long time, but really enjoyed it and keep meaning to return. I used to backpack all through there and fish the streams.

These are generally tied to ride hook point down, but here's a simple, but really deadly pattern that imitates a lot of the baitfish in eastern streams, as well as one of the more common ones in particular, the Black Nosed Dace:
Print Black Nosed Dace

You can use the same techniques for tying a lot of popular and effective patterns like the Mickey Finn (yellow over red over yellow) and the Trout Fin- a really effective Brook Trout fly in small sizes that imitates the coloration of a ventral fin on brookies (white over black over orange). There are also a whole series of flies including Thunder Creek patterns and Lil Trout patterns use the same materials and techniques.

A simple more generic version is just a white bucktail wing topped with peacock herl. You can also substitute marabou for bucktail for a different look on these patterns.

You could tie these clouser or bendback style if you want to invert the hook. Featherwing style flies, if tied inverted, may have a tendency to foul around the hook bend. Perhaps a small very sparse "wing" of bucktail tied on first before the feathers, with the feathers on either side of the bucktail might help reduce this.

Good luck,

peregrines

FlyfishnakedInc 02-06-2009 02:33 PM

Re: Streamer question
 
Yep hook up can be good and yes tie a couple and test them to make sure they ride that way. I tie half mine with the hook up and half with the hook down, reason being you can vary the way the material lays on the hook depending on which way you want it to ride and can get a variant with the same pattern depending on that. I use hook up in the lowland lakes here in Washington when i want to avoid snags in weedy areas like Frank said. Just make sure they ride as you want them to, so experiment........what a concept fly fishers experimenting :biggrin: ....................it's all about the enjoyment of discovery and searching and the satisfaction of this amazing sport and art form.................Happy Fishing


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