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-   -   after much decision...echo I went (http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/forums/how-spey-cast-technique-advice/310027-after-much-decision-echo-i-went.html)

derelict 02-04-2013 05:07 PM

after much decision...echo I went
 
Bouncing back and forth between going with an 8 weight single hander or switch and I went switch. Specifically, I went Echo SR in 6 weight and 10` 10" guise. So, having entered the two handed world, I am trying to understand what I need to purchase to line it. I'm used to backing, floating line, leader and then fly. I've looked at Rios chart for this rod and damn if I cannot understand a single thing there. I am a novice caster and prefer to feel the rod load so I am assuming that I am looking at the 'B' column but the numbers confuse me. I believe that Scandi is for lighter flies and Skagit is for larger streamers. I am looking to be able to throw to many different fish but will focus on what I can snag up here in the tidal Potomac but also go out with me on a planned trip into Canada to chase Salmon, steelhead or 10+ pound browns. I chose the 6 weight with the idea that it would be roughly equivalent to an 8 or 9 weight single hander.

I'm a blank slate here so if one casting style or line style sounds better, I am willing to put out the effort and time to get there. So, educate me :thmbup: because I am lost here.

billyspey 02-04-2013 07:24 PM

Re: after much decision...echo I went
 
Steve Godshall in Medford Oregon is the two hand guru of lines I would suggest Steve a call talk with him about your rod and what you want to fish . Best advice for anyone wanting to get into 2 hand rods he will save tons of time and money.

MacSuibhne 02-05-2013 08:54 AM

Re: after much decision...echo I went
 
I am in no position to educate you but I can give you some advice...Call echo. Talk to them about flylines and styles of casting.

And go with their recommendations.

If you are new to 2H rods and casting, the wisest thing you can do is stick with a known quantity esp. while learning. The rods have been designed and tested...they weren't grown and harvested in the wild. The head/line weights that are recommended are known to work well, maybe even excellently, with the rods. If you are having trouble casting those lines, it has little or nothing to do with the rod or the line or what you think you want to feel, and everything to do with learning to cast.

Let me tell you a story that illustrates the point.

I began fly fishing at about 13 (I'm now 67) and over the course of years I got good enough casting a single handed rod that I could throw the whole 90' WF line and several feet of backing out the rod tip guide. I taught casting for my FFF club and I gave demonstrations of casting a flyline without any rod--barehanded, IOW.

When I began with the 2H rod, I bought a 7wt Beulah Platinum switch. And I loaded it with a Rio Short 425gr. That's what the good folks at Beulah recommended. But even so, I admit I was struggling.

To make matters worse, I started reading all these recommendations to just "do your own thing"--folks advocating putting ridiculously heavy heads on this rod, ostensibly because it helped them to "feel" the load. And justifying it with comments about "grain windows." Maybe the specs were wrong. How could someone who was as good a caster as I had been be so out to sea? I started "looking for love in all the wrong places."

Now I'm not saying that there is no such thing as a grain window. Or that overloading the rod won't allow you to feel the rod. Or that you cannot cast with a line 100 grains heavier than recommended.

But what happened to me was that I started questioning the line weight and the rod rather than focusing on what was really the issue--my own casting stroke. Even though my goal was to learn spey casting I was trying to cast the rod like you'd cast a single handed rod--upper hand dominant, with little or no regard for what my lower hand was doing.

Once you start questioning the rod and the specs recommended for it, you lose the ability to learn. Simply because you don't have faith in your equipment. Again, the rods were designed to cast properly with the specified lines. The only variable in the equation is you.

Maybe somewhere down the line...once you've learned to cast the 2H rod properly with the lines it was designed to work with...you will decide to go to a heavier or lighter line.

But to start with, the better part of wisdom is to keep it simple, work within known parameters and concentrate on what is unknown--your casting stroke, IOW.

Take lessons if you can. It will work. You will get it. And in the end you will be happy you took this approach.

FWIW

klunker 02-05-2013 09:51 AM

Re: after much decision...echo I went
 
I too have just plunged into 2 handed rods. I got to know several local fishermen that fish the same river I do for the same stuff I do. I listen to what they had to say. Particularly fishing methods. They all pretty much agreed on how you wanted to fish. In my case it was slow and deep in the long slow runs. They also agreed on 2 handers for better casting on a brush lined river with poor wading situations in some spots which allowed for better covering some of the pools. They all didn't agree on line types (skajit or scandi). But I talked to other people and told them what I wanted to do, size of river length of cast, type of flies etc. and most came back with one recommendation that seemed logical.

derelict 02-05-2013 01:55 PM

Re: after much decision...echo I went
 
Thanks for the input. Echo lists a few different line options so I dropped them an email asking what they specifically list for the rod and what I specifically want to go for.

Im still trying to understand the different line types. I am thinking that I might actually want to go Scandi line over Skagit, but Im not sure. I am also trying to understand what I will have to buy, line wise. Backing, floating line, shooting head, leader? Or, _____?

MacSuibhne 02-05-2013 08:33 PM

Re: after much decision...echo I went
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by derelict (Post 523747)
Thanks for the input. Echo lists a few different line options so I dropped them an email asking what they specifically list for the rod and what I specifically want to go for.

Im still trying to understand the different line types. I am thinking that I might actually want to go Scandi line over Skagit, but Im not sure. I am also trying to understand what I will have to buy, line wise. Backing, floating line, shooting head, leader? Or, _____?

Well, I started with Skagit simply because I thought...maybe rightly, maybe wrongly...that there would be less strain on me physically (shoulder problems); and I also thought that sustained anchor would allow me a better path to other styles of spey casting while simultaneously allowing me to fish at distance pretty early on.

YMMV

After all of that, you just need to realize that a Scandi head (or Skagit) is just the first 30' (more or less) of a weight forward flyline. The running line...roughly equal to the last 60' of a weight forward flyline(100' in reality)...is simply sold separately.

Scandi does real well presenting and swinging surface and subsurface and lighter weight flies.

Skagit can fling some truly heavy stuff and make it look and feel "right." And in a pinch can present surface stuff albeit with less delicacy than Scandi.

If you go Scandi you may not need or want to buy tips. But you will need a leader and tippit material just as with a SH flyline.

Nowadays, with both the heads and the running line attached to each other by welded loops and changing heads being so quick and easy, spey fisherman have head wallets carrying both Skagit and Scandi heads and tip wallets carrying a variety of sinking tips. Wallets instead of extra spools.

And of course you'll need backing.

So...backing, running line, head, leader, and tippit.

derelict 02-06-2013 09:09 AM

Re: after much decision...echo I went
 
Heres what I am going with:

100 yds backing
100' 20# floating running line
Skagit Switch 360 grain head (recommended by Echo)
10' Slow sinking salmon/ steelhead poly leader
02X Tippet

Man, thats a lot to string up :eek:

steelhead36 02-24-2013 06:35 PM

Re: after much decision...echo I went
 
you preatty much have the line issue figured out. one other item that will make your 2 handed entrey good or bad. make sure you have a reel that will balance the rod well. and with the rod you mentioned may recomend the echo ion 7/9 should hold the line you mentioned and have enough weight to not make your rod tip light or heavy.

derelict 02-25-2013 08:14 AM

Re: after much decision...echo I went
 
All of my stuff comes in today and I will get it together and practice in the backyard (or, at least what I can do without water tension).


Question: while looking around and getting the stuff, I noticed that there are a lot of spey fly lines. Can you substitute a sinking fly line instead of a running line?

MacSuibhne 02-25-2013 08:36 AM

Re: after much decision...echo I went
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by derelict (Post 530697)
Question: while looking around and getting the stuff, I noticed that there are a lot of spey fly lines. Can you substitute a sinking fly line instead of a running line?


Why would you want to do that?! Having a sinking line that stands in for a "running line" would make mending impossible and shooting extra line at the end of a cast difficult at best.

Modern shooting/running line which has historically been thin monofilament and didn't break the water tension (theoretically) is now being made hollow so that it will float even better.


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