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-   -   Cast piling up (http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/forums/how-spey-cast-technique-advice/319918-cast-piling-up.html)

derelict 05-20-2013 12:17 PM

Cast piling up
 
So, Im getting better at the snap t but am having a problem with the shooting head/ leader piling up and not laying out straight. Every once in a while it does but Im not too sure why. I am slowly getting more line out there Im currently only able to get about 20 yards of running line out but more practice will get it there (10'10" 6wt w/ 360 grain heads). The piling makes things annoying. What am I doing wrong?

Hardyreels 05-20-2013 03:10 PM

Re: Cast piling up
 
Hi,

I am way far from a casting expert however if you are using a 28' head, leader, and shooting 20 yards of running line which = somewhere around a 90 foot cast depending on the length of your leader............ That's quite a ways in my book. Generally if I were to have a cast that would not unfurl completely I would suspect that my anchor had not been sufficient to load the rod well enough for the distance wanted. Or......... the anchor had begun to sink and too much of the energy that should have went into my cast was lost as the line was pulled from the water.

If I were having trouble such as you describe I would back peddle a bit. By that I mean that I would return to casting the distance in which I could deliver good presentations. From there I would focus on the timing and speed / energy that I were applying that was resulting in a good cast. From this 'sweet spot' in my casting I would then look to lengthen my casting distance a little at a time until all was well at both short and longer ranges.

I think many times we are caught up in the mindset that we should be ably to cast 100' just because we are using a Switch or Spey rod. More often than not reaching such distances with consistency and quality of presentation will take a good deal of work to achieve.

Do remember this if you would, I've caught some really pretty fish as the result of a fairly ugly cast. Even if you've had less than stellar results with any one cast, retrieve enough line to straiten out the jumble and fish your fly. There is nothing wrong with 50' or 65' casts when using your rod. Don't get too caught up in the thought that every cast must hit the other shore. Slow down and find your weakness and you'll be able to correct your cast. One last thing; what are you having tied to the end of your leader? Some rods and lines will just not carry larger flies great distances.

Hope that helps,

Ard

rockthief 05-20-2013 03:55 PM

Re: Cast piling up
 
Is your rod loading fully?

cb 05-21-2013 07:14 AM

Re: Cast piling up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by derelict (Post 557766)
So, Im getting better at the snap t but am having a problem with the shooting head/ leader piling up and not laying out straight. Every once in a while it does but Im not too sure why. I am slowly getting more line out there Im currently only able to get about 20 yards of running line out but more practice will get it there (10'10" 6wt w/ 360 grain heads). The piling makes things annoying. What am I doing wrong?

Wow, 20 yards of running line! I agree with Ard that seems way too much to me for an 11ft rod. Are you using a heavy shooting head or something ghastly like that? I suggest you throw that a way and get yourself a lovely proper spey line and enjoy your casting again!

For effective fishing distance I suggest you aim to cast a maximum of 6x rod length. (reel to fly). So a 15ft rod would cast 30 yards OR LESS for enjoyable fishing. You can belt it out more if you want but I for one want to come off the water relaxed and fit having enjoyed my day!

Using this rule your 11ft rod would comfortably spey cast 66ft or 22 yards (max).

So in short the answer is try to cast less far and almost effortlessly but with much better presentation. Spey casting is joy when it is like this.

I would also suggest you lower the top hand on your grip too (if it is too high). Often a high top hand leads to top hand dominance and pushing the rod which often results in poor turnover.

Cheers

Colin

derelict 05-21-2013 08:34 AM

Re: Cast piling up
 
So, I think I figured it out. I fish on a pretty wide river lined with rocks so its difficult at times to reach out and touch the deep areas where the Shad, Striped Bass, etc... are hanging out. Perhaps 20 yards of running line is a little on the big side but its about 12 to 15 I guess. I set out for some practice in the living room with my practice rod and think I figured it out. My rod is unloading and then reloading because the backward motion isnt flat. I definitely am introducing a bit of a dip so when my rod gets into the 'firing position', its basically already unloaded. Ill be working on that. Some casts are better than others but I think that I have identified the issue. Its only really my third time out in the water with it.

As for just lining with a spey line, I kind of like my shooting head set up. Ive got a fast sink leader, (about 28 feet) scandi head, and then the running line. It gets my flies out there pretty nicely.

fredaevans 05-21-2013 09:03 AM

Re: Cast piling up
 
Very good answer's above but by piling up I assume at the very end of your cast? If that's the case 'Gravity' has you by the shorts with that light head/short rod.

Two things you can do to compensate (to a degree, Gravity still works) is stop your forward cast at a higher angle. I tell folks pick out the tallest tree across from you and 'aim over the top with the stop.'

The second thing you can do to gain range is by getting your elbows up to about shoulder height. If you cast with your elbows low, this slight change will increase the tip height by up to a foot. And with a short rod, that's quite a lot.

derelict 05-21-2013 09:07 AM

Re: Cast piling up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fredaevans (Post 558037)

Two things you can do to compensate (to a degree, Gravity still works) is stop your forward cast at a higher angle. I tell folks pick out the tallest tree across from you and 'aim over the top with the stop.'

The second thing you can do to gain range is by getting your elbows up to about shoulder height. If you cast with your elbows low, this slight change will increase the tip height by up to a foot. And with a short rod, that's quite a lot.

This is the other thing. My stops are inconsistent. I noticed that yesterday.

I do keep them kind of low just to save my shoulder. I went the two hand route because my right shoulder was locked up for about 8 months and hasnt gained full range of motion. I twist a little in the waist and rotate my upper body as a rigid whole in order to make up lost motion.

fredaevans 05-21-2013 09:09 AM

Re: Cast piling up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by derelict (Post 558040)
This is the other thing. My stops are inconsistent. I noticed that yesterday.

That will do it every time.:eek:

derelict 05-21-2013 09:28 AM

Re: Cast piling up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fredaevans (Post 558042)
That will do it every time.:eek:

Im practicing just about every day after work. I can only hit the water one or two days a week so a lot of it is with the short practice rod inside. Its not quite the same but the bright yellow string/ red yarn arrangement helps me see where everything is going and what it is that I am doing wrong. Ill work on making my stops a little higher up. The line shoots out and then hits this imaginary wall and just piles in a way. Its not because its used all of the running line available and jerking against the reel (although that does happen every now and again) but more because it just runs out of energy. Im working on the consistency thing. Once thats down, Ill look into maybe a slight heavier head. I dont want to step up in weight to cover up bad form.

fredaevans 05-21-2013 02:23 PM

Re: Cast piling up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by derelict (Post 558048)
Im practicing just about every day after work. I can only hit the water one or two days a week so a lot of it is with the short practice rod inside. Its not quite the same but the bright yellow string/ red yarn arrangement helps me see where everything is going and what it is that I am doing wrong. Ill work on making my stops a little higher up. The line shoots out and then hits this imaginary wall and just piles in a way. Its not because its used all of the running line available and jerking against the reel (although that does happen every now and again) but more because it just runs out of energy. Im working on the consistency thing. Once thats down, Ill look into maybe a slight heavier head. I dont want to step up in weight to cover up bad form.

In the simplest of terms a 'cast' is just a transfer of energy from the rod to the fly. The more line you've got between the two the faster 'gravity' will work on the cast. I suspect you're bouncing of the design capacity of both rod and line. Everything is 'perfect' and you may get a tad more, but as to what you're experiencing I'm thinking this rod is giving you every thing its got.

To get out to where you want the only answer may be a 12.5 - 14 foot spey rod. Bye the bye I love the casts where there's more going out (energy) than the cast needed and it jerks more line of the reel. A real smile maker!


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