The North American Fly Fishing Forum


Go Back   The North American Fly Fishing Forum > Spey Casting, Spey and Switch Fly Rods and Double Handed Fly Fishing > How to Spey Cast - Technique and Advice

Like Tree8Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2013, 11:48 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Strathroy, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 198
king joe will become famous soon enough
Default Scandi or skagit

Hey all
I have leads on a cheap (CHEAP) Batson IM7 13' 7 wt spey blank but in the reading, I note that the line size for this rates in the scandi ranges. While I am not an experience spey caster by any stretch, I am pretty much only familiar with casting the 13' versa-spey with skagit tips. As such, I 'was' kinda on the look-out for a skagit-essque set up based on below.

In the course I took, the instructor suggested for me, bigger and heavier based on my 'style' and size (big guy). I was down with that basically, because I know no different.

I have been trying to utilize what I learned on my 11' switch but am have difficulty in timing (I think that is the issue).

In researching more about scandi vs. skagit...I don't know. There seems a bit of a difference so am wondering if those 'in the know' could comment on this either way. So I am wondering...do I gamble on the new blank and build the scandi....or is skagit the 'way'?

For background...I am very experienced single hander casting big and small with rods ranging from 3 to 12 wt. All manners of single casting techniques are not an issue for me....though am new to 2 handing. I do consider myself, despite the instructors assessment of me, to be a bit of a finess fisher.

Any discussion on this would be great.

King Joe Outa Here!

Last edited by king joe; 07-10-2013 at 12:05 PM. Reason: missed some info
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2013, 01:53 PM
fyshstykr's Avatar
Super Moderator

 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Plain City, Utah.
Posts: 4,884
Blog Entries: 1
fyshstykr has a reputation beyond reputefyshstykr has a reputation beyond reputefyshstykr has a reputation beyond reputefyshstykr has a reputation beyond reputefyshstykr has a reputation beyond reputefyshstykr has a reputation beyond reputefyshstykr has a reputation beyond reputefyshstykr has a reputation beyond reputefyshstykr has a reputation beyond reputefyshstykr has a reputation beyond reputefyshstykr has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Scandi or skagit

I have the same rod and the Airflow 'Rage' 425 gr is a very sweet line on it, like it better than a Scandi Compact or a skagit even though it has characteristics from both. Give it a thought.
king joe likes this.
__________________
John.

"Whoever said happiness comes with sunshine, has never known a Steelhead fisherman who prays for Fall rains."



Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2013, 02:12 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Strathroy, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 198
king joe will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Scandi or skagit

Quote:
Originally Posted by fysh View Post
I have the same rod and the Airflow 'Rage' 425 gr is a very sweet line on it, like it better than a Scandi Compact or a skagit even though it has characteristics from both. Give it a thought.
Wait, so you are saying the Rage in the 425 doing scandi touch and go type casts...or have you added tips and are running skagit type of casts? Not sure I quite know what I am talking about but its what I am reading more than experiencing.

The Rage lines are what the instructor suggested...but again, through the skagit rod weights (13', 8-9 is what I used).

Sideline: I like the way I read scandi vs. skagit discussions.

"skagit is like driving a diesel truck, scandi is like driving a BMW 3mi" (or whatever model).

thanks for prompt response. I think I am 'there' but as a scientist, I tend to gather a lot of information before pulling the pin.

King Joe Outa Here!
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2013, 05:03 PM
fyshstykr's Avatar
Super Moderator

 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Plain City, Utah.
Posts: 4,884
Blog Entries: 1
fyshstykr has a reputation beyond reputefyshstykr has a reputation beyond reputefyshstykr has a reputation beyond reputefyshstykr has a reputation beyond reputefyshstykr has a reputation beyond reputefyshstykr has a reputation beyond reputefyshstykr has a reputation beyond reputefyshstykr has a reputation beyond reputefyshstykr has a reputation beyond reputefyshstykr has a reputation beyond reputefyshstykr has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Scandi or skagit

Technically the 'Rage' line falls under the Skagit category. Your cast will still utilize an anchor point, you don't wait as long as with the typical Skagit heads, but isn't quite a "touch and go" as with a Scandi line, sort of in between the two. I'm still learning the two hander game so I hope I'm explaining this correctly.

I started casting with a Skagit line and when I went to a Scandi compact it kicked my behind, had a fella recommend the 'Rage' as sort of a baby step to ween myself from from the oversized firehose and it's been a joy to cast. I fish it with a 10' poly leader or a braided leader in the same length.

Tim Rajeff & tom Larimer can explain the details much better than me.
jaybo41 and king joe like this.
__________________
John.

"Whoever said happiness comes with sunshine, has never known a Steelhead fisherman who prays for Fall rains."



Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2013, 09:46 PM
fredaevans's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: White City (tad north of Medford) Oar-E-Gone
Posts: 6,155
fredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Scandi or skagit

"In researching more about scandi vs. skagit...I don't know. There seems a bit of a difference so am wondering if those 'in the know' could comment on this either way. So I am wondering...do I gamble on the new blank and build the scandi....or is skagit the 'way'?"

Just my .02 cents but a 13 foot rod would be right at the bottom edge to use with a skagit type head. ** Edit below.

To over simplify this:

Skagit = very heavy grains, very short head to cast sink tips and heavy flies. Add to that the 'anchor' is 'sustained;' read that you let the sink tip SINK before you make your cast. Skagit's are not a dry line to fling small flies; they're there to chuck 'big heavy fluff.'

Scandi = Longer, lighter head (upwards of 100 grains over a dozen feet) with floating leaders or sinking poly leaders. And a 'touch and go' anchor as you cast. Rod length? Just about any thing you want.

Edit: I've done same with a 12 foot 3" Anderson (ACR) 8wt rod that was designed for just this sort of thing. Pure Magic! Handed rod to Nate Bailey and it was a 'Just sit down on the beach with the Dog' and have a smoke or two. Young guy just kept pulling line off the reel. Sent him home with the rod/reel and Steve G's line. A man in his element and equipment to match?

This equipment needed better than me.
jaybo41 likes this.
__________________
"“Reputation is what the world thinks a man is; character is what he really is.”
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07-11-2013, 10:35 AM
nick k's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Brookline, MA
Posts: 1,237
nick k is a glorious beacon of lightnick k is a glorious beacon of lightnick k is a glorious beacon of lightnick k is a glorious beacon of lightnick k is a glorious beacon of lightnick k is a glorious beacon of light
Default Re: Scandi or skagit

Although I'm in no way an experienced spey angler (in fact I just built my first one and haven't casted it yet) I wanted to weigh in something.

Like some others have been saying, scandi heads are designed for (among other things) the ability to do touch-and-go casts without the need for a long sustained anchor. Scagit heads are designed for the opposite.

When I was picking an appropriate line type for my spey rod, this was my most determining factor, and not actually fly size. While I do cast larger flies, I don't generally need heavy sink tips and will not usually want a long sustained anchor. This led me to purchase a scandi head.

Just something to think about.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-11-2013, 05:02 PM
cb's Avatar
cb cb is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: London, England
Posts: 168
cb is just really nicecb is just really nicecb is just really nicecb is just really nice
Default Re: Scandi or skagit

Quote:
Originally Posted by king joe View Post
Scandi or skagit
My vote - emphatically - is for neither!

Go for the Brit-Spey* – elegant, effortless and a joy. With Spey head 4 x rod length and thin running line for shooting (but not excessively) when required. Carry both floating and sinking fly lines and armed with a wide selection of 10ft polyleaders you are rigged for almost most all fishing needs.

Using this style I leave just the tiniest amount of fly line kissing the water on both airborne and waterborne casts - no difference. In fact, in both, the fly line is actually just on the point of leaving the water - as if taking off again like a float-plane - in the opposite direction to the final cast.

Sweep low – cast happy!

Cheers

Colin

* British
Hardyreels and jaybo41 like this.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07-11-2013, 05:44 PM
fredaevans's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: White City (tad north of Medford) Oar-E-Gone
Posts: 6,155
fredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond repute
Question Re: Scandi or skagit

Colin, a complete new term for me ("Go for the Brit-Spey") a link?

Fred
__________________
"“Reputation is what the world thinks a man is; character is what he really is.”
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-11-2013, 11:03 PM
Hardyreels's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Wasilla / Skwentna, Alaska
Posts: 12,009
Blog Entries: 70
Hardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Yahoo to Hardyreels Send a message via Skype™ to Hardyreels
Default Re: Scandi or skagit

I'm in Colin's camp on belly lengths but I use my own leader system for handling depth situations. Using just a floating line and with un-weighted flies I reach fish in 5 - 7 feet of water pretty well. The more I understand my rods and lines the better and easier the fishing gets.

My shortest head is 55' and the longest is 70'. These make for some pretty laid back fishing.

Ard
jaybo41 likes this.
__________________
Anywhere can be the land of great expectations, broken dreams, or paradise found, it's all up to you.

Life On The Line - Alaska Fishing with Ard

The Alaska Fishing & Outdoors Blog;
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-2013, 04:16 AM
fredaevans's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: White City (tad north of Medford) Oar-E-Gone
Posts: 6,155
fredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Scandi or skagit

Just add a touch more to this, and a 'thumbs up' to longer headed lines ... very little in the way of stripping line from cast to cast. Which is needed with either a Skagit or Scandi line system.

With a full on spey line you can get heads from as short as 45 feet out to 105 (that I know of).
__________________
"“Reputation is what the world thinks a man is; character is what he really is.”
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Scandi Line for Loop Opti Switch loringj Fly Lines 4 04-17-2013 01:58 PM
Skagit River - Mid November. addni Coldwater Fly Fishing 2 10-31-2012 06:41 AM
Scientific Anglers Scandi Extreme Head 520 Grain NIB silvercreekoutfitters Lines 0 02-08-2012 05:15 PM
Scientific Anglers Scandi Extreme Head 480 Grain NIB silvercreekoutfitters Lines 0 02-08-2012 05:15 PM
Scandi Short-Head Video randyflycaster How to Spey Cast - Technique and Advice 0 10-22-2011 09:08 AM













All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
2005-2014 The North American Fly Fishing Forum. All rights reserved.