The North American Fly Fishing Forum


Go Back   The North American Fly Fishing Forum > Spey Casting, Spey and Switch Fly Rods and Double Handed Fly Fishing > How to Spey Cast - Technique and Advice

Like Tree11Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2014, 07:36 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: MD Suburbs of DC
Posts: 681
ts47 has a spectacular aura aboutts47 has a spectacular aura about
Default Need a better understanding.

At some point, I would like to consider fishing with a two handed rod. I hate to admit it, but the terms are about as foreign to me as many of the fly fishing terms were before I got into fly fishing. I mean who outside of fly fishing ever considered a bugger to be a good thing? ;-)

Getting back to the point... Is there an article or something somewhere that I could read that would give me a start to understanding what Spey, switch, skagit, etc are and what they would do for my ability to catch fish? If it helps, I am primarily interested in fresh water - trout, bass, steelhead.

Thanks for the help,

Todd


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
__________________
"May the holes in your net be no larger than the fish in it."

--Irish Blessing
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2014, 10:25 AM
fredaevans's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: White City (tad north of Medford) Oar-E-Gone
Posts: 5,707
fredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Need a better understanding.

Good morning Todd. First, DON'T over think this thing; there isn't a 'spey cast' you can't easily do with a one hander rod. First a few basics:

1. The smiling fellow behind the counter is going to try to convince you to buy a 9-11 weight 'spey rod' as "you can handle any fish you're likely to hook." TOTAL BS! Do not go there He's trying to dump a rod that's been on the shelf for three years .....

2. 'You need a rod at least 14 to 15 foot long. More BS 13' feet is more than enough 99% of the time.

3. Consider the fish you're most likely to encounter and go for a line weight that's appropriate. A 7wt 2hander will easily control a fish upwards of 20 pounds; with experience there with big fish. If the 'average fish' is only going to be 5-8 pounds a six weight will be more than adequate.

4. Line choices ... here is where it gets a bit more fiddlie. But there are two driving factors ..... the 'Anchor' and how you need to use same. Two types: 'kiss and go' or a 'sustained anchor.' The latter is really only appropriate for skagit heads and full sunk sink tips. The rest are 'touch and go.'

5. ALL spey casts have three parts, and I do mean THREE separate casting actions. The first is the 'lift' with the rod tip inches from the water on the 'dangle.' (line straight down stream ... you can actually do this with out this bit if you blow a cast ... and every one of us does).

6. Part one and back to the lift. Only thing this is doing is getting as much line off the water (water 'stick') as possible. This is a straight up into the air, NOT A UP/DRAG!! WHOLE POINT OF THIS is properly setting up the 'anchor.' There/that takes practice!

7. Part two is the formation of what ever cast you're doing.

8. Part three is coming out of the 'D Loop' with your rod tip as high as you can get same. I tell folks to stick their arms in the air to get that as high as possible as underneath is where the 'D's' forming. Think of a tipped over letter "U" and your loading the rod/line on the back swing (poor choice of words there) and re-directing the 'force/line' in another direction.

9. The same nit-wit that wants to sell you that 10/11 weight rod will try to convince you on line choices ... probably a 'Skagit' head set up so you can 'toss really get down and dirty sink tips and heavy flies.' AVOID AT ALL COSTS! As a 'Newbie;' RUN FROM THIS VILLAGE IDIOT.

10. For someone new to this simple, and it really is that simple, a full floater head no longer than 55' is more than adequate. Tip that off with a 9 to 12 foot leader and you're good to go. I hesitate at suggesting a 'Scandi' line for someone new as the cast timing is quite a bit different, so don't confuse yourself 'in the begging?'

11. If there's a 'Spey 'Clave' in your area, go to same, talk to people, try out rods/lines/etc. 90% of the 'experienced' folks there will spend as much time as you need to 'teach you how to cast.'

12. You can easily spend $1,000 to $1,500 for your first rod/reel/line(s) .. spend your money wisely young 'Grasshopper.' 90% of us can't tell a whispers breath between a $450.00 rod and one that costs $1,000 when it come down to "Just Fishing." How far you can cast? You betcha!!

13. Review of #12. Most of the fish you are going to hook will be within 60'ish feet off the toes of your boots. Do you really care if you can punch out 120 foot of line?

14. I'll leave it at that, save for my first 2hander was made of wood.

Fred
__________________
"“Reputation is what the world thinks a man is; character is what he really is.”
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2014, 12:30 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: MD Suburbs of DC
Posts: 681
ts47 has a spectacular aura aboutts47 has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Need a better understanding.

Wow, thanks Fred! That was both informative and entertaining!!

I'm beginning to think that a spey rod could be in my future. I'm not there yet though. I'd really like to understand a little more about what a spey cast is, why I would want a spey rod and what it would do for my fishing. Part of what I was asking was if someone could share a link to an article somewhere that did a decent job of explaining the answers to these questions and the terminology involved so I don't feel like such an idiot the next time someone mentions the word "Skagit"!?!

I can also do my own internet search. I was just hoping if someone knew an article that was a particularly good read and/or answered these questions, they would be willing to share it.

Todd
Hardyreels likes this.
__________________
"May the holes in your net be no larger than the fish in it."

--Irish Blessing
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2014, 04:08 PM
fredaevans's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: White City (tad north of Medford) Oar-E-Gone
Posts: 5,707
fredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Need a better understanding.

Todd there's gobs of film on Utube but some of the best is on the RIO line web site. Simon G knows where of he speaks and is one heck of a good instructor (even on film).

Let's skip terminology for the moment as 'where' you fish has a heck of a lot of call on the type of rod/line that would be appropriate. Looking at your 'where' I'm guessing small/medium sized rivers? On average, how wide? Ask that as I've never been even near your area/waters.

Fellows here can build up from there.

fae
Hardyreels, ts47 and ontheflyguide like this.
__________________
"“Reputation is what the world thinks a man is; character is what he really is.”
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2014, 06:44 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: MD Suburbs of DC
Posts: 681
ts47 has a spectacular aura aboutts47 has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Need a better understanding.

Hi Fred,

If I understand Spey casting, this part is currently questionable, I would likely use it for areas where there is no room for a back cast. Is this correct?

The types of waters I fish most often are small creeks (tight quarters), small rivers that are perhaps 15-30 feet across with high banks or trees on both sides, medium size rivers from 30- 100' across.

I will be doing some fishing, how much is yet to be determined, on large rivers. I hope to start bass fishing and catch the spring shad run. Both of these will be done on big open water.

Most of my fishing is for trout. I also hope or have plans to fish for shad, steelhead and shad.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
__________________
"May the holes in your net be no larger than the fish in it."

--Irish Blessing
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2014, 07:04 PM
Hardyreels's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Wasilla / Skwentna, Alaska
Posts: 11,549
Blog Entries: 69
Hardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Yahoo to Hardyreels Send a message via Skype™ to Hardyreels
Default Re: Need a better understanding.

Hi Todd,

I use single hand rods & Spey type casting on small creeks while reserving the long rods for the larger streams & rivers. I will not attempt to describe in detail the single hand Spey but it is a sort of hybrid roll cast. You can execute many Spey casts with the one hand rod.

As for the ability to fish in areas where there is not sufficient room for a long back cast; that is precisely why I moved up to 13' rods. The Snap T or several other casts allow for a long forward cast with the line never going behind your upstream shoulder. Very effective for tough riversides and I believe this was what led to the evolution of the Spey casting in Scotland years ago.

Ard
ts47 likes this.
__________________
Anywhere can be the land of great expectations, broken dreams, or paradise found, it's all up to you.

Life On The Line - Alaska Fishing with Ard

The Alaska Fishing & Outdoors Blog;
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2014, 07:10 PM
runningfish's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Alberta and California
Posts: 1,092
runningfish is a glorious beacon of lightrunningfish is a glorious beacon of lightrunningfish is a glorious beacon of lightrunningfish is a glorious beacon of lightrunningfish is a glorious beacon of light
Default Re: Need a better understanding.

Other than what Fred said, I think this link will answer all your question if you should get a switch rod.

__________________
BEWARE...Once you switched, you can't switch back. : and NO, I am not an expert, I just think like one.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2014, 09:04 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: MD Suburbs of DC
Posts: 681
ts47 has a spectacular aura aboutts47 has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Need a better understanding.

Thanks Ard & Runningfish!

The information is helpful. I will review the link and come back with questions.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

---------- Post added at 09:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:41 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by runningfish View Post
Other than what Fred said, I think this link will answer all your question if you should get a switch rod.

Starsky & Hutch DO IT!!! - YouTube
Funny!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

---------- Post added at 10:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 PM ----------

Okay, here's a question. What is the difference between a Spey rod and a switch rod?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
__________________
"May the holes in your net be no larger than the fish in it."

--Irish Blessing
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2014, 10:03 PM
runningfish's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Alberta and California
Posts: 1,092
runningfish is a glorious beacon of lightrunningfish is a glorious beacon of lightrunningfish is a glorious beacon of lightrunningfish is a glorious beacon of lightrunningfish is a glorious beacon of light
Default Re: Need a better understanding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ts47 View Post
Thanks Ard & Runningfish!

The information is helpful. I will review the link and come back with questions.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

---------- Post added at 09:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:41 PM ----------



Funny!



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

---------- Post added at 10:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 PM ----------

Okay, here's a question. What is the difference between a Spey rod and a switch rod?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Switch rods are usually from 10-11'6" and light enough to be used as a single hand rod thus the name switch where you can switch from 1 to 2 hands. While the Spey can go from 12ft to 15ft and too heavy to cast 1 hand.

I think that what separated the 2 types. Fred can give you so much more informations and details. I can give you another link if you want.
ts47 likes this.
__________________
BEWARE...Once you switched, you can't switch back. : and NO, I am not an expert, I just think like one.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2014, 10:12 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: MD Suburbs of DC
Posts: 681
ts47 has a spectacular aura aboutts47 has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Need a better understanding.

Thanks Runningfish!

When using this app on my IPad to respond, links like the one you posted are less than an inch. I did obviously, finally click on the link and figure out what it was.

Todd
__________________
"May the holes in your net be no larger than the fish in it."

--Irish Blessing
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
understanding fly tying marabou flytire General Fly Tying Discussions 1 09-26-2013 04:23 AM
Understanding spey lines Guest1 Spey Fly Lines and other Spey Tackle 5 03-21-2011 09:19 PM
Thank God for understanding officers swirlchaser Warmwater Fly Fishing 8 03-10-2011 02:49 PM
Understanding Wild Trout Conservation riversimple Mid-Atlantic Area 4 12-25-2010 01:55 PM
understanding weather service data ffffg General Discussion 0 04-16-2006 10:29 AM













All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
2005-2014 The North American Fly Fishing Forum. All rights reserved.