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Old 01-25-2014, 01:50 PM
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Default Blasted the line but something is still missing

This morning, I managed to go to a lake and practiced with my Beulah Classic 5/6 10'6" and SGS line Part II. Although, I could do better than last week practice and consistently shot the line 70ft+ with good loops and accuracy.
But, I felt something was missing since I couldn't feel the Beulah at all. I didn't feel the connection at all with it. When I am using the Zenith 8wt 9ft 1 hand, the Zenith feels like "the extension of my hand" .

I like the Beulah Classic, but I just can't bring her to meet my parents

Is this a newbie syndrome or the Beulah isn't just my match?

Help!!!
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Old 01-25-2014, 02:21 PM
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Default Re: Blasted the line but something is still missing

Do you ever cast on moving water? That's where I feel like everything is clicking.

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Old 01-25-2014, 02:37 PM
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Default Re: Blasted the line but something is still missing

This has the sound of a timing and speed issue. It is possible to make casts that appear to be good but to be doing so almost all on your own energy. In other words the whole thing is happening because of the speed & energy you are pushing the line with.

The rod is there but you aren't feeling the loading or unloading. The casts are reaching out but you are really having to put yourself into each one. Does this sound close to what you see & feel?

You may benefit by shortening up your range goal and working with the rod having just the head out the tip. Find the point where you can feel that rod doing some of the energy transfer for you and shoot small amounts of line rather than going for the long cast.

We sometimes pause too long when forming the D loop. It is normal for new casters to think that there should be a real pause between the sweep and forward cast. You hear so much talk about 'the anchor' that we believe we have to give the line time to 'anchor'. If you pause too long the energy that was put into the rod during the sweep is lost and the only chance to get any flex & load back will be on the forward stroke. I believe that the rebound energy that is occurring between the sweep and the forward stroke plays a large part in the cast. If your timing is off and you lose that part of the loading on the rod, you are firing only half loaded casts. Do you find yourself leaning way into the forward cast and having the rod and arms extended as you push the cast out?

In my own experience I found that when the casts are a continuous motion with any pause at all limited to mere fractions of a second, my rod comes to life.

This takes some time to get a handle on what is really happening. The only way to get it down is to cast, but if you feel that you are the only one casting and your rod isn't really involved you will need to get that short game working. Once you begin to have good casts in the 40 - 50 foot range it may be time to go a little more.

I think that the common misconception of the 2 hand rods is that they are meant for really long casts. While those who have mastered the short work can be found fishing at 90 - 100' out the real strength of the rods is the ability to execute really long touch and go type roll casts with little or no space available to your rear. They (the rods) also excel at line control and because there is no need for excessive false casting to attain distance between casts they allow you to keep a fly in the water to a greater degree than a fellow fishing the same fly using a single hand rod & conventional casting.

Rod action is another consideration, if your rod is fast (tip power) and on the short side, (under 11.5') your casting strokes will need to be short and compact in order to match the amount of energy and range of motion / speed, you are putting into each effort.

I figure you know that I am not a 2 hand casting expert. I have no you tube videos out there but I have learned how to get my various rods to work for me. I've tried to put into words a few points but it is January and I have not made a cast since October.

One last thing before I post this reply, try to find some moving water to practice on. I find it difficult to execute any of the actual Spey style casts on still water. If I were going to fish still water and wanted to cast 100 foot consistently I would use a spinning rod to do it.

I hope some of what I said is actually accurate and will be helpful to you.

Ard
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Old 01-25-2014, 06:23 PM
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Default Re: Blasted the line but something is still missing

I would tend to believe as Ard does, that this sounds like a speed & timing issue. How about a little more information...What type of line and grain wt are you using?
Which type of cast are you attempting?
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Old 01-25-2014, 08:55 PM
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Default Re: Blasted the line but something is still missing

Tyler, I have no access to moving water, what I have is the still water. I probably will have difficulties in casting in moving water.

Ard, thank you for such observation.
But first to answer fyshstykr's question. I am using SGS custom cut scandi line 248grain, 26'7" with integrated running line and casting both sustain anchor casts and the touch and go cast.

Back to Ard, the first 2 paragraphs almost nailed the issue. There were casts that felt so efficient and effortless and those were casts that I would shoot the line but not as efficient nor effortless.

Regarding my casting stance, I am a right handed, I am placing my right foot in the front, right shoulder 45 degree to my left shoulder and turning my right hip, arm and rod at the same time in back sweeping and in forward casting (I watched Mortensen's instruction on you tube, and it helped me to slow down and generate power). My stance at the end of the cast is the same as my stance when I started a cast. I understand what you meant by my arm extending forward after the cast. And YES! after AIR CASTING in the living room just now, I did that too. That could be D problem. In consistency in my casting technique! For the switch cast I make sure to see the leader or tip of the head touches the water before I shoot. The sustain anchor casts were much easier for me to cast than the touch and go or Switch cast.

I am not planning to fish 100ft away and actually pretty happy with today's distance and getting better than last week. But I am always like that looking for the Hail Mary although I don't have to. I did forget a point that I made when I learned how to use a single handler. Go short and accurate. It is easy to forget about going short when the previous switch cast peeled some line out from the reel.... feels like a runner high or rush, run faster and farther.

I did some sampling about 2-3 weeks ago and I found out the 3 other longer rods in 11ft and 11'6" cast easier and I could dial in with the timing the first time I tried them even using the wrong line. The Beulah couldn't cast that incorrect line. Is it because I couldn't adjust my time and speed with the shorter Beulah? Should I go with a longer switch rod?
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Old 01-25-2014, 09:59 PM
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Default Re: Blasted the line but something is still missing

I have a 7/8 Beulah switch and it really comes alive when I use enough bottom hand...maybe some tapers tolerate top hand dominant casting better than others.

I heard somewhere that if your cackhand casts are the same or better than your strongside casts then you are using too much top hand. Anyway, good luck and I hope you sort it out.

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Old 01-25-2014, 10:07 PM
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Default Re: Blasted the line but something is still missing

Thank you Tyler.

I practice and use my left hand for the "Cackhand" cast.
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Old 01-26-2014, 02:49 AM
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Default Re: Blasted the line but something is still missing

I believe that unless you are fishing creeks so narrow that you are pushing the limits with a 10'6" rod you should go to a 13'. The only reason I wanted an 11'6" rod is for use on streams too narrow for my 13 and longer rods. Where I'll use the short rod casting is in the 40' range and I can do this very easy with the short rod.

If you have some rivers or creeks where you will be making 60 - 90' casts then don't try to do it with a switch. Get a 13' in about a #7 unless you want to use large flies in which case a #8 will be even better. I have to wonder at all the posting I read about 4-5-and 6 weight 'Spey' rods followed by the question about distance or payload sizes. While a good caster may be able to hit his distance with a light rod he may have trouble getting a light line to carry a big fat bunny fur Sculpin or other large flies.

So yeah, I'd go longer.
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Old 01-28-2014, 10:42 PM
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Default Re: Blasted the line but something is still missing

Thank you for the tips Ard. I found a perfect solution for it and I'll post it in 2 weeks time.
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Old 01-28-2014, 11:11 PM
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Default Re: Blasted the line but something is still missing

Quote:
Originally Posted by runningfish View Post
This morning, I managed to go to a lake and practiced with my Beulah Classic 5/6 10'6" and SGS line Part II. Although, I could do better than last week practice and consistently shot the line 70ft+ with good loops and accuracy.
But, I felt something was missing since I couldn't feel the Beulah at all. I didn't feel the connection at all with it. When I am using the Zenith 8wt 9ft 1 hand, the Zenith feels like "the extension of my hand" .

I like the Beulah Classic, but I just can't bring her to meet my parents

Is this a newbie syndrome or the Beulah isn't just my match?

Help!!!
Many good thoughts above, but I think the real clue here is a '10 foot 6 inch rod and hitting 70 feet.' That rod is giving you everything its got. Even with one of Steve's lines. Distance is a relative thing, most of the fish I've hooked were within 30 feet of the bank I was standing on.

fae
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