The North American Fly Fishing Forum


Go Back   The North American Fly Fishing Forum > Spey Casting, Spey and Switch Fly Rods and Double Handed Fly Fishing > How to Spey Cast - Technique and Advice

Like Tree1Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-15-2014, 11:40 PM
runningfish's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Alberta and California
Posts: 951
runningfish is a glorious beacon of lightrunningfish is a glorious beacon of lightrunningfish is a glorious beacon of lightrunningfish is a glorious beacon of lightrunningfish is a glorious beacon of light
Default Underhand cast and Traditional cast

Well, I am having fun learning 2 handed casting and seeing the results. However, since I don't have a teacher; I have to focus in only the important stuffs.

My 2H casting is mostly using the traditional cast with the top hand doing the majority of the work. I am pretty happy with the loop, line speed, etc.
I watched a lot of videos of Henrik and Goran who are suggesting to the use of the underhand more; and I do agree that the underhand cast are more energy efficient than the traditional cast with the dominant top hand.

So, my questions are.
1. Is it really matters casting underhand or traditional? Is there such as thing as one is right and one is wrong?
2. is the underhand casting works better with longer spey rod with heavier head?
__________________
BEWARE...Once you switched, you can't switch back. : and NO, I am not an expert, I just think like one.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 02-16-2014, 12:08 AM
Hardyreels's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Wasilla / Skwentna, Alaska
Posts: 11,384
Blog Entries: 69
Hardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Yahoo to Hardyreels Send a message via Skype™ to Hardyreels
Default Re: Underhand cast and Traditional cast

Hi,

I don't see a right or wrong. I was using the bottom hand a lot and never knew it had a name. I think that as you go you'll find that sometimes bottom hand as the power source is more relaxing. It is something I slip in and out of without even thinking.

I have not ever had any sort of instruction. I just took up the long rods and began fishing with them. Having fished wet fly with single hand rods for so long was a big help I think but to this day even when I am casting well I don't know what I'm doing. That's not completely true........... I'm having fun and I believe that people who know all the cast names can identify my casting. I just don't know all the names.

You're having some fun and that's the good part.
__________________
Anywhere can be the land of great expectations, broken dreams, or paradise found, it's all up to you.

Life On The Line - Alaska Fishing with Ard

The Alaska Fishing & Outdoors Blog;
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 02-16-2014, 08:19 AM
randyflycaster's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 594
randyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to all
Default Re: Underhand cast and Traditional cast

When executing an underhand cast 70 per cent or so of the power is applied with the bottom hand. Underhand casting is generally used when casting short, Scandinavian shooting-head lines. I guess you can also use an underhand cast when casting a Skagit head.

I don't think underhand casting is used when casting longer-head lines.

Randy
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 02-16-2014, 10:08 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 109
tyler_durden will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Underhand cast and Traditional cast

I agree. From my understanding, using more bottom hand helps when casting shorter heads (something to do with the rod tip traveling in a short, flat trajectory before the stop) and its not as desireable with long lines where one's casting stroke isn't as compact. There's another, European based flyfishing website (I'm not sure I'm allowed to name names) that goes into a tremendous amount of depth concerning the physics of fly casting. It's a tremendous time waster :-)
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 02-16-2014, 10:20 AM
runningfish's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Alberta and California
Posts: 951
runningfish is a glorious beacon of lightrunningfish is a glorious beacon of lightrunningfish is a glorious beacon of lightrunningfish is a glorious beacon of lightrunningfish is a glorious beacon of light
Default Re: Underhand cast and Traditional cast

Ard, it is true the underhand cast is very relaxing and i can do it very slowly. The traditional cast is more natural too. Perhaps, I can do both equally in the future.

Randy,
At the moment I can only shoot about 10ft of running line with underhand cast without dumping the line which is what I actually need. However, I watched some Japanese underhand casting classes and they are getting good distance.

Is the longer rod will help with underhand cast? I am just curious.
__________________
BEWARE...Once you switched, you can't switch back. : and NO, I am not an expert, I just think like one.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 02-16-2014, 11:37 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 109
tyler_durden will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Underhand cast and Traditional cast

I could be wrong but I believe that shorter rods encourage more bottom hand application of power. I have a couple of very short and light switch rods and at the beginning of the day I'll often cast them with just the bottom hand to get in a groove (the top hand just cradles and doesn't grip the cork). Id never attempt this with my longer rods out of fear of getting instant tendonitis.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 02-16-2014, 09:29 PM
randyflycaster's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 594
randyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to all
Default Re: Underhand cast and Traditional cast

Running Fish,

It's important that your spey rod and spey line match. If you're casting a short rod you'll be better off casting a short-head line.

On my 12'6" foot rod I use a traditional Scandi head. I would not use a long-head (often called a long-belly) line.

Here's a link about Scandi lines from Rio:

Scandi Shooting Head - Spey Fly Lines | RIO

If you're using a shorter switch rod, you should use a line designed for a shorter line:

Switch Line - Spey Fly Lines | RIO

IMHO it's impossible to diagnose casting problems from an internet bulletin board.

You should, however, be able to shoot more line. When executing an underhand cast I begin the cast by only rotating my hips. This is my loading move. Then I execute my power snap. To me, this resembles cracking a whip. The rod tip is never lowered from the target line. In fact I either aim my forward cast parallel to the water or slightly upwards.

In other words, the underhand casting stroke is very short. Less is more.

Randy
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 02-16-2014, 11:15 PM
runningfish's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Alberta and California
Posts: 951
runningfish is a glorious beacon of lightrunningfish is a glorious beacon of lightrunningfish is a glorious beacon of lightrunningfish is a glorious beacon of lightrunningfish is a glorious beacon of light
Default Re: Underhand cast and Traditional cast

Tyler, I made an O ring with my thumb and index finger and let the bottom hand holding the running line. Tendonitis is a very familiar term for me as I am still nursing a hamstring tendonitis in my left leg from running. They come and go like a cat.

Randy, Thank you for the tips.
One question, does the bottom grip must hit the mid of the belly at the end of the snap?
I tend to stop a little on the left side of the belly.
__________________
BEWARE...Once you switched, you can't switch back. : and NO, I am not an expert, I just think like one.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 02-17-2014, 08:30 AM
randyflycaster's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 594
randyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to all
Default Re: Underhand cast and Traditional cast

I tend to end the underhand cast with the butt in the middle of my belly or chest. (I tend to cast with my hands a little higher than most.) I don't think it really matters if the butt is slightly on your left side.

This video of Goran Andersson might help:


At the end of the forward cast I use my upper arm as sort of a brake. Also, to help me make an abrupt stop I squeeze the rod handle with my top hand as hard as I can at the end of the cast.

Randy
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 02-17-2014, 08:52 AM
cb's Avatar
cb cb is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: London, England
Posts: 150
cb is just really nicecb is just really nicecb is just really nicecb is just really nice
Default Re: Underhand cast and Traditional cast

Quote:
Originally Posted by runningfish View Post
So, my questions are.
1. Is it really matters casting underhand or traditional? Is there such as thing as one is right and one is wrong?
2. is the underhand casting works better with longer spey rod with heavier head?
No matter what you read - a double handed rod means two hands are used in the cast.

They work together and both wrists 'snap-rotate' in the same direction - anti clockwise.

The bottom hand drifts forwards and down and then is pulled back towards you while the wrist snaps and at the same time the top hand drifts forward and down and snaps forward away from you.

They should move roughly the same distance and either stop and start at the same time (50:50) OR as I do - 'kick start' the whole rotation using the bottom hand like a trigger.

Either hand can dominate – but it should not be by much at all. Both play an important role – they complement each other. The actually keep each other under control.

The rod tip should move 90 degrees on the delivery stroke. No more and no less. The rod should start 45 degrees sloping behind you and finish sloping 45 degrees away from you. (Longer headed lines may need you to 'drift' either side of this angle to allow time and to stop over-sudden power - but this remains the 'business' range in terms of power applcation.)

The strict adherence to this is a clear indicator of how good a caster you are. Practice in front of a mirror or refection from patios doors etc. I would recommend you dont let the rod butt hit you in the belly or anywhere else for that matter. If you do, then your wrists may not be in the correct position to snap rotate efficiently nor stop the rod quickly at the end of rotation.

Getting the two hands working together is the most difficult part of casting the double handed rod to master - especially for those used to single handed casting. Get this right and the rest is easy!

I personally think talk of underhand and top hand is unhelpful. All Spey casts are two handed casts. Both hands are equally important and work together - just watch the video above to see .
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How does an Overhead Two Handed cast differ from a Spey or Switch cast? floorabove The Fly Cast 14 05-29-2012 04:01 AM
Underhand Casting by Goran Andersson mcnerney The Fly Cast 1 11-06-2011 07:43 AM
Difference between a Roll Cast and a Standard Cast silver creek The Fly Cast 1 10-07-2011 11:41 AM
Tuck Cast, Pile Cast Causing Tangles? randyflycaster General Discussion 3 07-15-2011 03:59 PM
Has any one tried to fly cast with no rod DMV General Discussion 9 02-04-2008 11:29 AM













All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
2005-2014 The North American Fly Fishing Forum. All rights reserved.