The North American Fly Fishing Forum


Go Back   The North American Fly Fishing Forum > Spey Casting, Spey and Switch Fly Rods and Double Handed Fly Fishing > How to Spey Cast - Technique and Advice

Like Tree25Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2017, 07:45 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 549
myt1 is a splendid one to beholdmyt1 is a splendid one to beholdmyt1 is a splendid one to beholdmyt1 is a splendid one to beholdmyt1 is a splendid one to beholdmyt1 is a splendid one to beholdmyt1 is a splendid one to behold
Default So, I'm practicing my Skagit casting and this happened.

Click the image to open in full size.

I went to a local lake to practice my Skagit casting. There wasn't a steelhead within a thousand miles.

Initially my setup had a beadhead woolly bugger and four feet of 30lb. Maxima attached to a ten foot section of T-14.

By the end of my hour-plus practice session I was left with the photo above.

First I lost the woolly bugger, then the leader, then the T-14 started falling apart.

More than a few times I heard a noise that sounded like a whip snapping while casting.

In general I have a very slow casting motion and I was working on speeding things up.

Any suggestions?...besides, take up tennis.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2017, 08:03 PM
Ard Stetts's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Wasilla / Skwentna, Alaska
Posts: 14,594
Blog Entries: 95
Ard Stetts has a reputation beyond reputeArd Stetts has a reputation beyond reputeArd Stetts has a reputation beyond reputeArd Stetts has a reputation beyond reputeArd Stetts has a reputation beyond reputeArd Stetts has a reputation beyond reputeArd Stetts has a reputation beyond reputeArd Stetts has a reputation beyond reputeArd Stetts has a reputation beyond reputeArd Stetts has a reputation beyond reputeArd Stetts has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Yahoo to Ard Stetts Send a message via Skype™ to Ard Stetts
Default Re: So, I'm practicing my Skagit casting and this happened.

Honestly it would be so easy if we lived near one another to fix this. You are indeed cracking the end of the line and if there is anyone you could get to instruct on technique it would be well worth the time and or money spent.

If this never happened prior to 'speeding things up' then I would go back to what you were doing before and reevaluate the need to speed things up.

If I could see you cast I may be able to help but there are many on here much better at casting and trouble shooting than I am so...........
fredaevans and myt1 like this.
__________________
Anywhere can be the land of great expectations, broken dreams, or paradise found, it's all up to you.

Life On The Line - Alaska Fishing with Ard

The Alaska Fishing & Outdoors Blog;
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2017, 08:36 PM
ia_trouter's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Eastern Iowa
Posts: 6,232
ia_trouter has a reputation beyond reputeia_trouter has a reputation beyond reputeia_trouter has a reputation beyond reputeia_trouter has a reputation beyond reputeia_trouter has a reputation beyond reputeia_trouter has a reputation beyond reputeia_trouter has a reputation beyond reputeia_trouter has a reputation beyond reputeia_trouter has a reputation beyond reputeia_trouter has a reputation beyond reputeia_trouter has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: So, I'm practicing my Skagit casting and this happened.

Are we just looking at busted up T-14 with any other the leader and tippet already gone? Like Ard I wish I could see this up close. This almost has to be a severe timing issue which I suspect you already know. Make no mistake you busted that up like a champion. Hang in there, you will get it working.
fredaevans and myt1 like this.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2017, 08:51 PM
dillon's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Portland and Maupin, Oregon
Posts: 363
dillon is a name known to alldillon is a name known to alldillon is a name known to alldillon is a name known to alldillon is a name known to alldillon is a name known to all
Default Re: So, I'm practicing my Skagit casting and this happened.

As Ard said it's pretty hard to advise without seeing you cast. However, if you are learning to cast, T-14 and a weighted fly is pretty heavy stuff. I'd suggest a floating or very light tip and a piece of yarn tied to the leader instead of a fly. Work on the snap t and double spey, if you are not already doing so. If private instruction is not available or affordable, watch some you tube video and try it again. Work on setting the anchor with a short piece of the fly line on the water, and creating a d-loop. Apply gentle power with a bottom hand pull. Use a loose grip and easy push with the top hand. Good luck, it takes awhile to get it down.
myt1 likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2017, 09:21 PM
willyf's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 171
willyf is on a distinguished road
Thumbs up Re: So, I'm practicing my Skagit casting and this happened.

Casting issues aside... this is what happens when you cast without a fly and leader. Skagit casting creates a lot of speed at the end of your line. The fly slows it down considerably. Without that, you're putting tremendous stress on the leader and tip.
Hirdy and myt1 like this.
__________________
Check out my fishing, dog, and meat pictures on my Instagram account - @willyfranzen
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2017, 12:00 AM
runningfish's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Decided
Posts: 2,243
runningfish is a splendid one to beholdrunningfish is a splendid one to beholdrunningfish is a splendid one to beholdrunningfish is a splendid one to beholdrunningfish is a splendid one to beholdrunningfish is a splendid one to beholdrunningfish is a splendid one to beholdrunningfish is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: So, I'm practicing my Skagit casting and this happened.

When you slow down that T-14 sinks too deep and your cast fall apart, when you speed things up you blow your anchor with that short skagit head.

I know that a lot of people said that Skagit heads will make it easier for beginner to learn the spey cast. Maybe it is true if you have a mentor or an instructor holding your hands and teaching you the dynamic of the cast. But for someone who is a self-taught kinda guy it would be a different story....maybe.

I don't know your skagit setup, but when I learned....I am still learning; I used a slower rod, shorter scandi head (Beulah Elixir V2) and a Rage head and floating polyleader, an unweighted streamer and at local lakes. That setup is very forgiving for beginner mistakes. The head isn't too short and you can do skagit casts and touch and go as well. You can dial in your tempo and learn to use or to rotate your torso for the cast. Unlike sinking setup, floating setup will let you check where you place your anchor and will allow you to take your sweet time preparing your sweep, rod angle, forming the D loop and the forward cast. You can easily see the end of a sweep when the polyleader stop ripping the surface which means time to prepare your forward cast.

Your current skagit head and t-14 to start with in a lake is just too much. The T-14 will sink like rock in stillwater and it'll force you to speed up your cast which will blow your anchor creating that whipping sound. If you were 1 second late or too slow and trying to figure out your next move the t-14 is already at least 12" underwater. So yeah try a floating setup first, you'll get a hang of it in no time.

IMO learning to spey cast in stillwater is really good to learn how to keep the rod loaded without the help of the river current. Competition castings are all being done in stillwater right?

My favorite setup is intermediate skagit head with T tips and iMOW tips. They are heavy to lift out of the water and will sink immediately in stillwater but very fun to cast and will get your fly deep.
fredaevans and myt1 like this.
__________________
I am highly qualified to comment in this forum after receiving a Specialized High Intensive Training (S.H.I.T) at the Olde Schitt Institute of Technology (O.S.H.I.T).

Last edited by runningfish; 01-13-2017 at 12:16 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2017, 03:52 AM
eastfly66's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 2,955
eastfly66 has a brilliant futureeastfly66 has a brilliant futureeastfly66 has a brilliant futureeastfly66 has a brilliant futureeastfly66 has a brilliant futureeastfly66 has a brilliant futureeastfly66 has a brilliant futureeastfly66 has a brilliant futureeastfly66 has a brilliant futureeastfly66 has a brilliant futureeastfly66 has a brilliant future
Default Re: So, I'm practicing my Skagit casting and this happened.

My guess is Arizona is probably not over flowing with 2 hand instructors/classes right ?

You might want to plan a mini vacation and attend a Spey Clave or visit an instructor on location. I go to one each year in NY and learn something each time , plus it is a great mini get away. Good BBQ too !
myt1 likes this.
__________________
Spey Nation Man ! Spey Rules !
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2017, 07:37 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 549
myt1 is a splendid one to beholdmyt1 is a splendid one to beholdmyt1 is a splendid one to beholdmyt1 is a splendid one to beholdmyt1 is a splendid one to beholdmyt1 is a splendid one to beholdmyt1 is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: So, I'm practicing my Skagit casting and this happened.

Quote:
Originally Posted by runningfish View Post
When you slow down that T-14 sinks too deep and your cast fall apart, when you speed things up you blow your anchor with that short skagit head.

I know that a lot of people said that Skagit heads will make it easier for beginner to learn the spey cast. Maybe it is true if you have a mentor or an instructor holding your hands and teaching you the dynamic of the cast. But for someone who is a self-taught kinda guy it would be a different story....maybe.

I don't know your skagit setup, but when I learned....I am still learning; I used a slower rod, shorter scandi head (Beulah Elixir V2) and a Rage head and floating polyleader, an unweighted streamer and at local lakes. That setup is very forgiving for beginner mistakes. The head isn't too short and you can do skagit casts and touch and go as well. You can dial in your tempo and learn to use or to rotate your torso for the cast. Unlike sinking setup, floating setup will let you check where you place your anchor and will allow you to take your sweet time preparing your sweep, rod angle, forming the D loop and the forward cast. You can easily see the end of a sweep when the polyleader stop ripping the surface which means time to prepare your forward cast.

Your current skagit head and t-14 to start with in a lake is just too much. The T-14 will sink like rock in stillwater and it'll force you to speed up your cast which will blow your anchor creating that whipping sound. If you were 1 second late or too slow and trying to figure out your next move the t-14 is already at least 12" underwater. So yeah try a floating setup first, you'll get a hang of it in no time.

IMO learning to spey cast in stillwater is really good to learn how to keep the rod loaded without the help of the river current. Competition castings are all being done in stillwater right?

My favorite setup is intermediate skagit head with T tips and iMOW tips. They are heavy to lift out of the water and will sink immediately in stillwater but very fun to cast and will get your fly deep.
Runningfish, thank you. Thanks to the rest of the above posts as well.

I was tossing a lot of weight around, and things were sinking really fast; add to that my less than impeccable casting technique and I'm sure that all contributed to destroying my setup.

I like the idea of using a floating setup.

If instead of using T-14 I were to substitute Rio Scandi Versileader 10ft floating, would that be better for practice?
fredaevans likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2017, 08:00 AM
eastfly66's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 2,955
eastfly66 has a brilliant futureeastfly66 has a brilliant futureeastfly66 has a brilliant futureeastfly66 has a brilliant futureeastfly66 has a brilliant futureeastfly66 has a brilliant futureeastfly66 has a brilliant futureeastfly66 has a brilliant futureeastfly66 has a brilliant futureeastfly66 has a brilliant futureeastfly66 has a brilliant future
Default Re: So, I'm practicing my Skagit casting and this happened.

Quote:
Originally Posted by myt1 View Post
If instead of using T-14 I were to substitute Rio Scandi Versileader 10ft floating, would that be better for practice?
What is the rod length and head length ?
runningfish likes this.
__________________
Spey Nation Man ! Spey Rules !
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2017, 11:02 AM
runningfish's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Decided
Posts: 2,243
runningfish is a splendid one to beholdrunningfish is a splendid one to beholdrunningfish is a splendid one to beholdrunningfish is a splendid one to beholdrunningfish is a splendid one to beholdrunningfish is a splendid one to beholdrunningfish is a splendid one to beholdrunningfish is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: So, I'm practicing my Skagit casting and this happened.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastfly66 View Post
What is the rod length and head length ?
+1

Myt1, you're welcomed. About using 10ft floating polyleader, what is the skagit head length and grain that you have right now? Polyleaders are best used with scandi heads like the Elixir and Rage (recommended). But, if you had a T-14 as your tip, that means you are using at least 600 grain skagit head. That Rio Scandi 10ft polyleader is probably be too light for you. But give it a try or look for a 10ft floating MOW tip in heavy size.

I am also recommending you to lengthen your shooting head. My average rod and shooting head + tip length ration is 1:2.2, say I am using a 10'8" and 10'4" rods I can get away with 22ft (head+tip) setup. The first time I learned, with 11~11.5 ft rod, my total head setup up 30ft-33ft.

Or....you can invest for the right shooting head for the right price by calling Steve Godshall (541-840-2594). I've had him built me over 10 custom heads tailored to my rods and casting flaws and helped me to build 4 switch rods. I am actually waiting for a new intermediate head from him now.
Give him a call and be prepared for a long interview and to receive free knowledge about spey.
Note: prepare a pen and a notebook to jot down some info and he won't pressure you into buying his products either.
eastfly66 likes this.
__________________
I am highly qualified to comment in this forum after receiving a Specialized High Intensive Training (S.H.I.T) at the Olde Schitt Institute of Technology (O.S.H.I.T).
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My switch rod and skagit line casting videos guest63 Spey Rods and Switch Rods - Fly Fishing Tackle Talk! 2 06-09-2016 04:29 PM
Practicing Proper Catch and Release mikel Fly Fishing How To's 76 03-03-2016 08:40 PM
Casting a Skagit head ? eastfly66 How to Spey Cast - Technique and Advice 20 05-01-2015 08:09 PM
Well, I've been practicing my fly tying fly_guy12955 Flies 11 11-01-2012 12:04 PM
Still practicing simmons_j_m Share Patterns 8 02-27-2010 02:57 AM











All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
2005-2017 The North American Fly Fishing Forum. All rights reserved.