The North American Fly Fishing Forum


Go Back   The North American Fly Fishing Forum > General Fly Fishing Discussion > Kayak/SUP Discussion

Kayak/SUP Discussion Discuss the use of kayaks and SUP's for fly fishing


Like Tree12Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2013, 10:11 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: FL and MI
Posts: 378
dakotakid has a spectacular aura aboutdakotakid has a spectacular aura aboutdakotakid has a spectacular aura about
Default Kayak recommendations

Rather than take another active thread off on a tangent, I'll start another. I'm in the market for a kayak. The options are amazing and diverse, so I'm looking for experienced guidance. Unless I'm overlooking something, I believe the most important features are:
1) ability to [U]comfortably[U] stand for fly fishing
2) relatively light weight
3) comfortable seat

That said, I also am unclear on the following:
1) length: for example 10 vs 12 foot besides the obvious impact on weight
2) what are the disadvantages of sit-on kayaks

NuCanoe seems like a good option. Is it really as stable as they say when standing to cast?
Native Ultimate Angler makes similar claims for standing stability and is lighter.
Then there is the Freedom Hawk Pathfinder and their so-called patented outrigger system. Probably the most stable, but at what trade off?

I'd like to get feedback (pro and con) if you have experience with any of these or can highly recommend something else.

Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2013, 11:31 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: undecided
Posts: 2,053
runningfish is a splendid one to beholdrunningfish is a splendid one to beholdrunningfish is a splendid one to beholdrunningfish is a splendid one to beholdrunningfish is a splendid one to beholdrunningfish is a splendid one to beholdrunningfish is a splendid one to beholdrunningfish is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Kayak recommendations

Quote:
Originally Posted by dakotakid View Post
Rather than take another active thread off on a tangent, I'll start another. I'm in the market for a kayak. The options are amazing and diverse, so I'm looking for experienced guidance. Unless I'm overlooking something, I believe the most important features are:
1) ability to [U]comfortably[U] stand for fly fishing
2) relatively light weight
3) comfortable seat

That said, I also am unclear on the following:
1) length: for example 10 vs 12 foot besides the obvious impact on weight
2) what are the disadvantages of sit-on kayaks

NuCanoe seems like a good option. Is it really as stable as they say when standing to cast?
Native Ultimate Angler makes similar claims for standing stability and is lighter.
Then there is the Freedom Hawk Pathfinder and their so-called patented outrigger system. Probably the most stable, but at what trade off?

I'd like to get feedback (pro and con) if you have experience with any of these or can highly recommend something else.

Thanks
I have 2011 model Ocean Kayak Trident 13 which I really like very much.
going straight to your questions, please note that I am not an expert in kayak and just a regular paddler.

1) ability to [U]comfortably[U] stand for fly fishing
I fish standing up most of the time, the only time I am sitting down is when I am paddling to a new spot or to fish a type 5 sinking line and that is sitting on the side of the kayak with feet both in the water.
The T13 is 13'6" Bow to Stern, I can't remember the width. T13 allows me to stand up paddling for sight fishing, cast to the fish, fight the fish, maneuver the kayak back while fighting the fish all while standing up.
2) relatively light weight
Weights about 52lbs empty. I recommend a kayak cart because with all the gears, anchor, fish finder battery, this thing can get much heavier and you don't want to drag it to/from the shore or always having someone else to help you carry it.
3) comfortable seat
I bought a cushion pad from Austinkayak.com it helped my lower back.

1) length: for example 10 vs 12 foot besides the obvious impact on weight
The longer the kayak the better the tracking and the faster, but harder to maneuver. I don't have maneuvering problem with my T13 because I am paddling in big windy reservoirs and lakes. I haven't tried in a river situation.

2) what are the disadvantages of sit-on kayaks
Non kayakers will say SOT is prone to flip over, that is true if you are standing up and you forgot that you are standing up. In most cases you'll be in the water but the kayak is still upright waiting for you. Try this; sit on a kayak and try to rock the kayak from side to side position with your hands only. You'll find it is not easy to flip it, now lean your head and shoulder out and you'll find out it is easier to flip the kayak. My point is you have to be aware of your center gravity and train your body to move base on it.

I can't find the disadvantages of SOT, I find it more advantageous in term of cargo volume, room for your legs and body to move around, you have flexibility to rig and install various Scotty rod holders, fish finder. The heck you can even carry your beach umbrella and six packs of buds for that windless summer day in the middle of the lake.

I'll see if I have the time to take picture of my T13.

Have fun, I hope others with more kayaking experience and know how can provide you with more inputs.

Don't forget the life jacket and a good WHISTLE.
dakotakid likes this.
__________________
Don't judge me, I was born to be awesome not perfect.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2013, 12:12 PM
ted4887's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Northern WI
Posts: 1,003
ted4887 is a splendid one to beholdted4887 is a splendid one to beholdted4887 is a splendid one to beholdted4887 is a splendid one to beholdted4887 is a splendid one to beholdted4887 is a splendid one to beholdted4887 is a splendid one to beholdted4887 is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Kayak recommendations

If you decide on a Freedom Hawk, check out my classified ad.

The NuCanoe is a nice rig. I had the oportunity to paddle one not long ago and like it. However, there are a few things I didn't care for. Mostly being the ability to transport it on the roof of my Escape. It's a horse of a kayak weighing in somewhere around 80-100lbs (my best guess). It's also ultra wide, so it won't work with any self-loading roof top carriers.

However, it is a very stable rig and is easy to stand in. It's also minimalistic which I also really like. Not many things to snag your fly line around.


I used to own a Native Ultimate. It was a great kayak as well. Although, while a lot of people claim it's easy to stand it, it is definitely the least stable of the three you listed. It can be done, but it's not as comfortable to stand in than the others you listed.

It's a good rig though, and really excels with a rudder in the river. For lakes, there are better rigs I believe.

The Freedom hawk is what I own right now. I've had it out about 5 times, and heres what I can tell you from those. It's stable. As stable as most small boats. It would be nearly impossible to flip it. In fact, I'd be surprised if someone could flip it with the outriggers deployed. I don't think it could be done unless you were really trying.

The boat is susceptible to wind. This can be easily countered with a trolling motor or anchor though since you can stand and fish in a 360* pattern without losing stability. Whereas other boats you're generally limited to 180* at most to keep the kayak stable.
This is a premiere lake rig. It will also handle slower rivers well. While it is great in slower/still water situations, the boat would make me nervous in anything over class 2 rapids. If you're good at reading water you could do it. But the boat doesn't manuever as well as the Native, and could get a little hairy if you got into a tight turning situation.

If you buy a Freedom Hawk, you'll eventually want to put a cheap trolling motor on it. It would really rock if you did that.

The Native, you DEFINITELY want to add the rudder system. Even for stillwater situations.

I know you can add a motor to the NuCanoes, and would be another that you'd likely want to.

All three boats are susceptible to wind. Although, when you learn how to anchor a kayak properly to keep you positioned you will be much happier. That, or add a trolling motor to combat the wind (much better than an anchor).
mcnerney and dakotakid like this.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2013, 12:39 PM
buddhist_palm's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: S.E. Wisconsin
Posts: 307
buddhist_palm is a jewel in the roughbuddhist_palm is a jewel in the roughbuddhist_palm is a jewel in the roughbuddhist_palm is a jewel in the rough
Default Re: Kayak recommendations

Quote:
Originally Posted by ted4887 View Post
If you decide on a Freedom Hawk, check out my classified ad.
Road Trip!!!

Fish the whole way up
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 11-25-2013, 12:58 PM
New Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 4
uppersippi is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Kayak recommendations

I think it depends on the type of water you are predominantly fishing and the distances you are going. Everything is a trade-off. If you intend to paddle upstream or into the wind a few miles to drift back to your launch, that nice to stand in (wide) kayak will give you a work out. I live on the Mississippi and keep my kayak on my shore. I canít stand in my kayak, but I have no problems paddling upstream a few miles and drifting home as I fish.

Last summer I was fishing 6 nights a week out of my Tarpon 120. I didnít feel hindered at all by not standing. In fact I think it allowed me to get closer to the smallmouths than I could have standing. I canít see them, but they canít see me either. It did take a bit getting used to casting from a sitting position, but it can be done.

I think the major disadvantage of the SOT is that you might get a bit wetter. I think the benefits outweigh this minor inconvenience. The ease of getting in and out will let you stop and wade while doing a drift if you get into fish.

The one thing I quickly learned is while it might be really convenient to have rod holders up front; any line you strip in will quickly become a mess. After my first two outings, I put all the rod holders behind me.

The Tarpon was my first kayak, but I have no plans (yet) for another. Well maybe the Tarpon 140.

Dan
dakotakid likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 11-25-2013, 05:30 PM
christianfishn's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: ohio
Posts: 153
christianfishn has a spectacular aura aboutchristianfishn has a spectacular aura aboutchristianfishn has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Kayak recommendations

IMO the ride 135 is extremely versatile. Its extremely stable and designed for standing, paddles well in big an small water, and handles nicely on rivers. If i had to buy a new kayak it would be a ride 135.
dakotakid and jimp like this.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 11-25-2013, 06:14 PM
jimp's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: East TN
Posts: 338
jimp has a spectacular aura aboutjimp has a spectacular aura aboutjimp has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Kayak recommendations

I have a Ride 115 which is a bit heavy at 80#'s, but very stable, can stand up if you desire with a simple modification of installing an eye bolt and get a dog leash to use as a "pull strap". You can carry a lot of tackle/gear in the Ride, the seat is comfy, coming from someone who has a bad back. If you have a pick up truck, just throw it in the bed, a couple tiedown straps and hit the road. The 115 is not hard to put into my Sport Trac, the 135 might be a bit more but I can't say. I got the 115 because of storage space issues and don't regret it.

The seats are very comfy, I'm good for 3+ hours before I need a back/butt break. Easy to paddle, tracks good. Easy to put accessories on with the trac system.

The longer the yak the easier it will be to paddle in a straighter line, but will be a bit slower due to the length and weight. Some larger yaks are easier to paddle than smaller ones. Rides are made to accommodate a trolling motor if desired and will handle the weight 2/o issue but you lose some storage capacity behind the seat/cockpit area. I've FF several times from my Ride, seated as I have only stood in mine a couple times. You can flip 'em but it is difficult to. Google 'em or check out youtube for some review. GL
dakotakid likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 11-25-2013, 10:39 PM
raindogt's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 540
raindogt has much to be proud ofraindogt has much to be proud ofraindogt has much to be proud ofraindogt has much to be proud ofraindogt has much to be proud ofraindogt has much to be proud ofraindogt has much to be proud ofraindogt has much to be proud of
Default Re: Kayak recommendations

I agree with uppersippi---standing up is not as imperative as you might think (not to be rude,but if you can't cast from a sitting position, you need to work on your cast).

To go further with my being disparaging: A kayak with out- riggers, a trolling motor, or a rudder system begins to cease being a kayak. Once you get to those pricepoints, you might as well look into a 'boat'. Also, if you need a trailer to haul the thing around, buy a boat.

The things I love about my kayak (OK trident 11)? The ability to carry it atop my car, the ability to physically carry it a long way to fairly remote areas, and the ability to launch anywhere (no boat ramp necessary). a nice seat is a necessity.

Also, I disagree with jimp: "The longer the yak the easier it will be to paddle in a straighter line, but will be a bit slower due to the length and weight." In reality, a longer yak will be faster than a shorter yak. The longer boat resists the twisting motion inherent with paddling side to side-- tracks better and is faster because the boat goes straight, not in a 'w' pattern across the water.

Just clearing up some misconceptions and giving my two pennies.
dakotakid likes this.
__________________
He who loses key to girlfriend's apartment gets no new key. ~Confucius
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2013, 04:48 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: FL and MI
Posts: 378
dakotakid has a spectacular aura aboutdakotakid has a spectacular aura aboutdakotakid has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Kayak recommendations

Thanks everyone. Based on your input and additional research, I'm now leaning toward the Jackson Coosa kayak (The Jackson Coosa Kayak is a Great fly Fishing Boat). Appears to be very stable, relatively light weight, good seat (?) and has nice fishing related features.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2013, 05:23 PM
ted4887's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Northern WI
Posts: 1,003
ted4887 is a splendid one to beholdted4887 is a splendid one to beholdted4887 is a splendid one to beholdted4887 is a splendid one to beholdted4887 is a splendid one to beholdted4887 is a splendid one to beholdted4887 is a splendid one to beholdted4887 is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Kayak recommendations

Quote:
Originally Posted by raindogt View Post
To go further with my being disparaging: A kayak with out- riggers, a trolling motor, or a rudder system begins to cease being a kayak. Once you get to those pricepoints, you might as well look into a 'boat'. Also, if you need a trailer to haul the thing around, buy a boat.

Raindog, how do outriggers, a trolling motor, or a rudder take away from the kayak actually being a kayak? I can maybe grant you the trolling motor turning it into a "boat", but the other two I will give no ground on.

Standing up in a kayak, while not a necessity to cast, is very nice when you're sight fishing. Perhaps that's not a style of fishing that you do down in KC. I don't know anything about your area or the type of fish you pursue. But up here, when you're fishing clear lakes (15-20' clarity) being able to spot submerged structure or cruising fish can mean the difference between being skunked and putting a few in the boat. But I agree that standing up is not required in all situations.

The rudder part baffles me though. I'm going to make an assumption that you've never used a rudder in a kayak. I might be different in this aspect, but I believe that more time spent with a line in the water, rather than paddling, will generally equate to a better chance at catching fish and in turn, usually leads to a more rewarding day. Shoot, even if you're not fishing, being able to cruise down a river without having to constantly paddle to keep the boat straight is a luxury worth a few hundred bucks to me.

I am guessing that your thoughts on these vary from mine based on the type of water and the type of fishing that you do. That's understandable. But to condemn outriggers or rudders is just strange to me.

---------- Post added at 05:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:22 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by dakotakid View Post
Thanks everyone. Based on your input and additional research, I'm now leaning toward the Jackson Coosa kayak (The Jackson Coosa Kayak is a Great fly Fishing Boat). Appears to be very stable, relatively light weight, good seat (?) and has nice fishing related features.
I took a pretty hard look at that boat last spring. It's a VERY nice rig and is definitely worthy of your consideration. Jackson is a very cool company.
dakotakid likes this.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Looking for a kayak bpeterson Kayak/SUP Discussion 14 04-11-2013 03:12 PM
Recommendations, Please jsquires Other Gear 5 01-24-2013 05:31 PM
Need some recommendations! riderfisher Southeast U.S. 9 10-19-2012 03:21 PM
Kayak flyguy2 Kayak/SUP Discussion 9 08-07-2011 09:56 AM
Kayak Help rebelfly Kayak/SUP Discussion 17 02-03-2008 07:19 AM









All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
2005-2015 The North American Fly Fishing Forum. All rights reserved.