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Old 04-10-2008, 09:06 AM
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Default Re: Oil company profits.....

The hearings were just a ploy to make the public think our government cares about the issue. Since they weren't under oath it means nothing at all is going to change. It should not be a surprise since corporations have been practicing socialistic capitalism for so many years. Oil Companies, Agri Business, Pharmacueticals and the Insurance Industry our on the take for over 200 Billion each year.

I find it amusing that the far right always calls the left a group of socialist who want bigger government and more taxes. When in fact the corporate america that they defend is the largest socialist program we have in this country. Maybe we should be taxing the corporations so we can invest better in social programs, especially education!
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Old 04-10-2008, 09:40 AM
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Thumbs down Re: Oil company profits.....

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Originally Posted by tightlines57 View Post
. . . It's the oil companies, not the service station retailers, that are reaping the rewards of high gas prices.
You're right that it's the oil companies that are reaping the rewards of high oil prices, but not the ones you're referring to - it's the state-owned oil companies in OPEC and elsewhere who control the supply and thus price of oil.
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Old 04-10-2008, 09:47 AM
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Thumbs down Re: Oil company profits.....

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. . . Maybe we should be taxing the corporations so we can invest better in social programs, especially education!
Fact is, the U.S. already has the second highest corporate tax rate in the world. But keep in mind that corporate profits ultimately are passed on to shareholders in the form of dividends. You probably own some of them yourself through pension plans, mutual funds, IRAs, 401(k)s, etc. The reason why corporations are not taxed more highly in advanced economies is that a tax on corporations ultimately is just another tax on the individual directly or indirectly owning shares in that corporation, leading to double taxation on the same earnings.
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Old 04-10-2008, 07:40 PM
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Default Re: Oil company profits.....

Something else I just heard but have not been able to verify, many OPEC companies are investing heavily in oil futures in order to keep oil prices high.
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Old 04-10-2008, 07:43 PM
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Default Re: Oil company profits.....

These are 2006 numbers. 2007 data is not available yet.

Company Revenue (million) Profit (million) %
1 Exxon Mobil* $339,938.0* $36,130.0* 10%
2 Wal-Mart Stores* $315,654.0* $11,231.0* 3.5%
3 General Motor* $192,604.0* $-10,600.0* -
4 Chevron* $189,481.0* $14,099.0* 7%
5 Ford Motor* $177,210.0* $2,024.0* 1%
6 ConocoPhillips* $166 ,683.0* $13,529.0* 8%
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Old 04-10-2008, 09:32 PM
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Thumbs down Re: Oil company profits.....

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Originally Posted by tightlines57 View Post
These are 2006 numbers. 2007 data is not available yet.

Company Revenue (million) Profit (million) %
1 Exxon Mobil* $339,938.0* $36,130.0* 10%
2 Wal-Mart Stores* $315,654.0* $11,231.0* 3.5%
3 General Motor* $192,604.0* $-10,600.0* -
4 Chevron* $189,481.0* $14,099.0* 7%
5 Ford Motor* $177,210.0* $2,024.0* 1%
6 ConocoPhillips* $166 ,683.0* $13,529.0* 8%
Okay, Tightlines, not sure what all this has to do with fly-fishing, but you've again set out false comparisons that need to be set straight (you cannot compare always-thin retail margins - Walmart - with other industries, nor the perennial loser U.S. car companies). In the 2007 timeframe, take a look at these comparative profit margins:
"ExxonMobil’s profit was about 10 percent of revenues. Chevron and ConocoPhillips had profits below 10 percent of revenue. Those percentages aren’t high when compared to other industries. Bank of America operates with an 18-percent profit margin, according to Forbes.com. Berkshire Hathaway has profit margin of 11 percent. AT&t: 11.8 percent. Proctor & Gamble: 13.1 percent. By the newspaper industry’s standards, oil companies must be on the verge of collapse. Newspapers, in spite of incessant fears that the industry is declining, reported pre-tax profit margins “in the high teens” in 2007, according to the Project for Excellence in Journalism."
The fact is, over time oil company profits have been sub-standard in comparison to other industries. You - as many - are confusing huge profit absolute numbers with how they relate to normal ratios, i.e., profits-per-worker, profit-to-capital-employed, profits as a percentage of gross sales, etc. In an industry where even a single production project commonly requires an investment of many billions of dollars, there is a need for commensurate returns to fund these huge capital-intensive projects essential to produce replacement oil reserves essential for our futures, or an oil company won't be able to attract the needed investment. Think back 20 years when oil was fetching less than $10 a barrel. I doubt you - and certainly the Congress - were complaining then when oil companies were hemorrhaging, with personnel layoffs in the oil sector exceeding a half-million workers and massive depression occuring in the oil sector areas of the U.S.

Keep in mind that, unlike the 1970's when there were supply disruptions due to OPEC oil embargoes, this time around the problem is excessive demand (mainly from new economies such as China and India) rather than those artificial supply constraints by OPEC. These supply-demand constraints will be more difficult to bring back in balance this time around, but balance they will, if necessary by world-wide recession brought about by these excessive prices.
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Old 04-10-2008, 10:03 PM
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Default Re: Oil company profits.....

It has nothing to do with fly fishing, that is why it's in the Lodge Den. No, I didn't show all 500 companies listed. The thread is about oil prices so that is what I concentrated on. From what you show it looks like 2007 numbers are available, my bad there.

If you really want to dig deep, look at the banking industry. Like you said, B of A has an 18% profit to revenue ratio.

Somebody want to start a thread about why banks charge you $30 or more for an overdraft when they know you don't have any money in the bank?
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Old 04-11-2008, 04:39 PM
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Thumbs up Re: Oil company profits.....

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Originally Posted by tightlines57 View Post
. . . If you really want to dig deep, look at the banking industry. Like you said, B of A has an 18% profit to revenue ratio.

Somebody want to start a thread about why banks charge you $30 or more for an overdraft when they know you don't have any money in the bank?
Not to hijack the thread, but that's a great point. Somehow, industries that are semi-regulated always seem to end up in high cotton. Speaking of that, now how about the cable companies . . . can't say more about them here because this is a family-friendly forum.
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Old 04-11-2008, 05:12 PM
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Default Re: Oil company profits.....

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Originally Posted by Fly2Fish View Post
Not to hijack the thread, but that's a great point. Somehow, industries that are semi-regulated always seem to end up in high cotton. Speaking of that, now how about the cable companies . . . can't say more about them here because this is a family-friendly forum.
That's for sure!

Maybe the admins can set up a new sub-forum,

"Companies and Public Utilities That Really PI** Me Off".
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