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Old 08-17-2007, 09:30 AM
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Default Re: casting 4wt. 5.5 ft. rod

No actually I didn't throw it down to the backing because I needle-knotted an extra 45 feet of level fly-line to the level portion of the origal line
What it amounts to is I have a 127 foot fly line on my reel- no danger of throwing all of that line off the reel!

Hi Steve,

Can you tell me how you needle knot a level fly line to a fly line? I have spliced additional running line to a fly line but don't know how to needle knot it.
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Old 08-17-2007, 07:31 PM
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Default Re: casting 4wt. 5.5 ft. rod

I was wondering the same thing Frank. I can do a needle knot with a TAPERED leader, but have no idea how you do one with the same diameter line.
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Old 08-18-2007, 11:32 AM
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Default Re: casting 4wt. 5.5 ft. rod

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Whiton View Post
No actually I didn't throw it down to the backing because I needle-knotted an extra 45 feet of level fly-line to the level portion of the origal line
What it amounts to is I have a 127 foot fly line on my reel- no danger of throwing all of that line off the reel!

Hi Steve,

Can you tell me how you needle knot a level fly line to a fly line? I have spliced additional running line to a fly line but don't know how to needle knot it.
Both fly lines are level at the point where you needle-knot them.
I use a tapered leader to do my dirty work, inserting the needle through the edge and out the end. You are actually using the thickest part of the leader for the actual holding mechanism along with some Zap-a-gap flexible super glue, after you take a knife blade anda file or emory board to roughen up the portion thats inside the fly lines...take the knife blade and make it jagged...little cuts going the opposite way of any strain pulling on the line...works well and the finished product slides through the guides real well
Tempco makes a little plastic tool that has two grooves cut in it and a groove going out each side at an angle, supplied with a sewing machine needle..I'm not sure where to get one now, I think they aren't too bad expensive...
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Old 08-18-2007, 11:43 AM
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Default Re: casting 4wt. 5.5 ft. rod

Steve, I have "THE SHIMAZAKI LEADER SPLICER KIT" and may I say well worth the $17.95. But again, I can not see how you can thread a FLY LINE throught this. The hole is barely big enough for the smaller portion of a TAPERED LEADER. Keep answering please, I gotta know how (and why) you are doing this.

I understand the level line part at the connection, that is a given.
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Old 08-18-2007, 11:44 AM
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Default Re: casting 4wt. 5.5 ft. rod

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Originally Posted by Joni View Post
I was wondering the same thing Frank. I can do a needle knot with a TAPERED leader, but have no idea how you do one with the same diameter line.
Are you using just straight monofilament line for a leader?
If you are "bad girl"...
You need the taper in a tapered leader for proper turn-over, but I've done the same thing myself, some of the lesders out there are priced outrageous
I have foud that a needle knot can be made with straight monofilament, but you'll have to taper the end with a sharp pair of finger-nail clippers, and cut it into a sharp narrow chisel-shaped point..then place it through the eye of the needle and pull it through and hope for the best, jagging the mono and super glue is a must or you can pull enough through to make it into a nail knot then cover it with some kind of sealer similiar to clear nail polish...
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Old 08-18-2007, 11:54 AM
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Default Re: casting 4wt. 5.5 ft. rod

Steve, for the record, I have been ff almost all my life and teaching for about 20+ years along with guiding. Now that that is out of the way, this is why I am asking you so many questions.
I do needle knot a TAPERED leader. When it gets to short I put a loop and attach Tapered leaders (either self made in at least seven stages for a good turn over or Furled). The end of the season, I cut the end and add a new leader with the needle knot.

Your original post, you said you connect two lines to get over the usual 90' line with the needle connection. So, my question was how do you do a needle knott with two (LEVEL) lines of same or close to same thickness.
Plus why do you feel the need to turn a 90' line into a 120+ (or 90' + 45'= 135') line?
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Old 08-18-2007, 11:57 AM
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Default Re: casting 4wt. 5.5 ft. rod

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joni View Post
Steve, I have "THE SHIMAZAKI LEADER SPLICER KIT" and may I say well worth the $17.95. But again, I can not see how you can thread a FLY LINE throught this. The hole is barely big enough for the smaller portion of a TAPERED LEADER. Keep answering please, I gotta know how (and why) you are doing this.

I understand the level line part at the connection, that is a given.
I am not familiar with the nomenclature of the SHIMAZAKI kit you are talking about, you have to insert the smaller end of the tapered leader in first and pull it all the way through to with-in a couple of inches of the biggest end, that is the portion of the leader you will be using, don't pull too hard or you will pull it all the way out, I'ts OK to leave the perfection loop on the end it will keep you from pulling all the way through, you can trim all that off later with finger-nail clippers or equivalent, remember to file and jagg the line thats going to be inside the leader, usually about 2 or 3 inches..rough it up so it wont pull out, when you put the glue on work fast so it dosen't harden up on you in mid-stream..Most connections last a pretty good while, but it may or may-not hold on a big fish...good for practicing.
A lot of this needle-knotting business is trial and error, but it makes a real good connection without so much as a bump!
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Old 08-18-2007, 12:20 PM
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Default Re: casting 4wt. 5.5 ft. rod

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joni View Post
Steve, for the record, I have been ff almost all my life and teaching for about 20+ years along with guiding. Now that that is out of the way, this is why I am asking you so many questions.
I do needle knot a TAPERED leader. When it gets to short I put a loop and attach Tapered leaders (either self made in at least seven stages for a good turn over or Furled). The end of the season, I cut the end and add a new leader with the needle knot.

Your original post, you said you connect two lines to get over the usual 90' line with the needle connection. So, my question was how do you do a needle knott with two (LEVEL) lines of same or close to same thickness.
Plus why do you feel the need to turn a 90' line into a 120+ (or 90' + 45'= 135') line?
Just join the two together with a needle-knot end to end with the thickest portion of the leader being the end result ruing into the end of each leader about 5/8 ths. of an inch the end sticks out the side where it is later clipped off flush with the ouside of the fly-line, during the glueing process the leader is pulled through and the glue holds it in place, the other side is done..some experimenting to see which works the best is in order here.
In reference to lengthening the fly-line..some of my fishing involves fishing on ponds and large rivers...If you take for example a one acre lake, thats 208.7 feet per side or 43,560 sq. ft. If you are presumbally going to fish to the center of this lake, where it is the deepest and all the fish are, you are going to have to be able to cast to the middle of the lake..or about 104.5 ft. Now things change quite a lot when casting that far, (double-hauls) If you manage to cast that far, what happens when you catch a fish...Line stretch, I have trained my-self to take 2 steps back, when I can to accomodate for line-stretch when I set the hook on a fish, usually it's Blue-gill or Bream in these lake situations and an occasional Trout, but what fun when you got a lunker with 95 feet of line out..the thing is the fish didn't even know you were any-where around....
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Old 08-18-2007, 01:10 PM
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Default Re: casting 4wt. 5.5 ft. rod

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve l. johnson View Post
Just join the two together with a needle-knot end to end with the thickest portion of the leader being the end result ruing into the end of each leader about 5/8 ths. of an inch the end sticks out the side where it is later clipped off flush with the ouside of the fly-line, during the glueing process the leader is pulled through and the glue holds it in place, the other side is done..some experimenting to see which works the best is in order here.
In reference to lengthening the fly-line..some of my fishing involves fishing on ponds and large rivers...If you take for example a one acre lake, thats 208.7 feet per side or 43,560 sq. ft. If you are presumbally going to fish to the center of this lake, where it is the deepest and all the fish are, you are going to have to be able to cast to the middle of the lake..or about 104.5 ft. Now things change quite a lot when casting that far, (double-hauls) If you manage to cast that far, what happens when you catch a fish...Line stretch, I have trained my-self to take 2 steps back, when I can to accomodate for line-stretch when I set the hook on a fish, usually it's Blue-gill or Bream in these lake situations and an occasional Trout, but what fun when you got a lunker with 95 feet of line out..the thing is the fish didn't even know you were any-where around....
Casting 105'!
Would't it be easier to fish out of some type of watercraft? Canoe, kayak, float tube, jon boat instead of a long cast. What's in back of you. Nothing?
Why not use a running line. DT cut in half with Amneisa. Or is it just more fun to do it your way? And are you casting with a short rod or long.
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Old 08-18-2007, 05:02 PM
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Default Re: casting 4wt. 5.5 ft. rod

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve l. johnson View Post
Just join the two together with a needle-knot end to end with the thickest portion of the leader being the end result ruing into the end of each leader about 5/8 ths. of an inch the end sticks out the side where it is later clipped off flush with the ouside of the fly-line, during the glueing process the leader is pulled through and the glue holds it in place, the other side is done..some experimenting to see which works the best is in order here.
In reference to lengthening the fly-line..some of my fishing involves fishing on ponds and large rivers...If you take for example a one acre lake, thats 208.7 feet per side or 43,560 sq. ft. If you are presumbally going to fish to the center of this lake, where it is the deepest and all the fish are, you are going to have to be able to cast to the middle of the lake..or about 104.5 ft. Now things change quite a lot when casting that far, (double-hauls) If you manage to cast that far, what happens when you catch a fish...Line stretch, I have trained my-self to take 2 steps back, when I can to accomodate for line-stretch when I set the hook on a fish, usually it's Blue-gill or Bream in these lake situations and an occasional Trout, but what fun when you got a lunker with 95 feet of line out..the thing is the fish didn't even know you were any-where around....


DUH! I get it now...that is cool as heck. You are actually going the other direction on the second line, right? Going in through the side, grabbing the tapered leader in the eye of the needle and pulling it back out...reverse. Am I see this right now?

I can't see the need for that long of a line, cause I do use a pontoon, but I will tell you, there is a lake here that is about 90' to 100' deep and some big boys down there, this might be the answer with sinking lines connected to ...just about anything, intermediate, Type whatever, you could create anything....vertical instead of horizontal.
My depth charge is 30' of 250 grain connected to 70' of Intermediate. I love that line.
Thanks Steve.
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