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Old 05-27-2011, 04:03 AM
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Default The Big Issue: Losing America's Last Great Wild Fishery

This is a dedicated thread for discussing article: The Big Issue: Losing America's Last Great Wild Fishery
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Old 05-27-2011, 09:39 AM
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Default Re: The Big Issue: Losing America's Last Great Wild Fishery

Can't read due to restricted access?
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Old 05-28-2011, 12:19 AM
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Default Re: The Big Issue: Losing America's Last Great Wild Fishery

We have a very similar situation here in Minnesota. There were deposits of copper, possibly the largest ever found, and a number of other metals found here. PolyMet and PGM have tried to open mines in these deposits. It would provide a ton of jobs. It would provide strategically important self reliance for a number of metals. There are politicians who have said off the record that they will NEVER allow the mines to open. They have been dragging the permit process out for years. There are 'enironmental' groups who have said things like it will pollute the BWCA despite the reallity they are NOT in the same watershed. Before I would get all upset over the pebble mine I would like to see the reallity of it from some reliable source who is not using the issue to raise money. And trust me when I say, I have seen commercials from these guys spouting heart wrenching stories and visually inspiring video that are complete lies. Not only complete lies, but lies that are easily proven to be lies. I would be wary of any source who is using this issue to raise money, and any source I have already seen telling outright vile canards on any other subject. Given the amount of disinformation, and insane prevarications coming from some corners in my own state, I would like to see the real situation from a trustworthy source.

On a second note, these kinds of threads, generally cause hard feelings. If you look at another site that has many things in common with this one, the Spey Pages, there were several subjects that caused a great number of problems. Dana, the owner, has a very distinct political bent, yet was forced to permanently ban some members, with the same bent, over threads like this one. It was causing the site real harm. In fact this subject exactly, plus Fracking and global warming to round out the trouble making trifecta. I'm sure it killed him to ban people he agrees with politically, but it was wrecking the site. To some extent, desite the removal of the section where this occurred being removed, is still wrecking the site. First because of the hard feelings it created, and second because some of the major offenders tried to just move the same destructive stuff to the general forum. I recently looked and 7 of the first 10 threads were attempts to revive the removed fish politics forum. I actually made the suggestion they bring back the forum section where this stuff had previously been so we would not have to sort through it to find the spey stuff. After all it was a spey forum. They are a bit touchy now and my suggestion was not met with .... enthusiasm. I really enjoy this forum and find it to be a much more friendly place than the spey pages. But we recently hit one of the 3 deadly sins here on the forum, the fracking subject. It resulted in hard feelings from a few people in a very short period of time. One who I had up till then, and still do, really liked and thought was more of an adult than he turned out to be, unfriened me, and refuses to talk to me over it. He even went so far as to edit his resonses to my talking to him on the chat box as to make them unintelligable, just to hide what he had said before. It is sad that some are not able to discuss things like this in a rational manner without becoming angry spoiled pouting children. But such is the reallity of politics, and trust me there is more politics than environment in this subject. It would be best right here and now to lock this thread from comment before it causes trouble and it will. All it would take would be to post one article like this and Viola, trouble.:Environmentalist groups see big green in Pebble Mine | The Alaska Standard

In summary, I love this site. I have friends here I have never met in person who I like as much as most people I know. For instance, Ard went a while where he did not post and I became worried. I called the Wasilla hospitals and police looking to be sure nothing had happened to a person I consider to be a real friend despite having never met him in person. I did the same when Aroostookbasser vanished to find he had been injured in a serious accident. There are people on here I care about. This is what the site should be about and not the divisive political nonsense that can be injected into what is a site for FLY FISHING. I say this as a politician. I ran for State Senate last cycle. I am as interested in politics as the next guy but there is a time and a place for everything. I will likely run again in 2012, and my politics will be in fund raisers, speeches, parades and door knocking, but not on this forum. This is a flyfishing forum. I am not angry with the person who unfriended me, but I am disappointed in him. Let's not let this spread. Lock the comments please. If we are to have these articles here, please do not allow posts. They lead to no good.
Dan
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Old 05-28-2011, 12:42 PM
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Default Re: The Big Issue: Losing America's Last Great Wild Fishery

Dan, clearly this is not a spey thread.
It is designated (by an editor)..... for us to weigh in on topics, even controversial ones. Thanks Paul.
If you don't enjoy the discussion, please, feel free not to participate.
In general, we already understand your viewpoint. You've stated it before.
The publishe/editor of the site is the only "single person" that should shape this site.
I'm sure the post was not designed to irritate you specifically.
If you just avoid it, you may sleep easier, and, have more friends.
Some of us might like to air issues here that we are interested in as well......
Especially PEBBLE.
I've seen an open pit mine, don't think it will help the fishery in Bristol bay..This is a fishing site right? Seems appropriate to disscuss.
Why should a foreign corp (with a terrible record), even get a chance, to ruin the last great fishery on our soil. Or anywhere else?

This may be the last stand for common sense.

Jim

Last edited by Bigfly; 05-28-2011 at 08:17 PM.
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Old 05-28-2011, 04:32 PM
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Default Re: The Big Issue: Losing America's Last Great Wild Fishery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigfly View Post
Dan, clearly this is not a spey thread.
..This is a fishing site right?

Jim
Never said it was a spey thread, and my point was that this IS a fishing site. Did you even read what I said or just hop in guessing?
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Old 05-28-2011, 05:00 PM
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Default Re: The Big Issue: Losing America's Last Great Wild Fishery

You bet, read it several times. I believe you made reference to a Spey site that went bad, due to discussion of politics..
But here, it was a news thread at the top of the page right?
Perfect place for a news topic discussion I would say..unlike politics on general fishing/streams/spey (which might not be appropriate).
The dominate opinion was yours (both tone and word count) I guess that's what might have made it seem like Spey thread as well....
There are other thoughts on any subject, besides yours, or mine.
You seem to be the only one worked up on this site, maybe just skip the news thread?
Hows about commenting, and then letting us, it's how discussion works.
Discussion about Pebble among fishermen (including commercial), may be the only/best way to help stop it's development.

Jim

Last edited by Bigfly; 05-28-2011 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 05-28-2011, 05:23 PM
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Default Re: The Big Issue: Losing America's Last Great Wild Fishery

I think we ought to let sleeping dogs lie before this proceeds any further. Airing of dirty laundry needs to be done in private please.
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Old 05-28-2011, 07:07 PM
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Default Re: The Big Issue: Losing America's Last Great Wild Fishery

Sorry guys not trying to offend, just speaking out for some free speech, on all threads..
Can't we have a place to discuss this topic without someone getting upset? If it's posted in the right place?
I think most of us can handle it. And those who can't, should refrain from deciding for the rest of us.
If the news/topic post goes sideways, then nip it.
But please don't pre-censor.
I stand by my last sentence in the post.
If we (fishermen) can't talk about Pebble, it will likely happen.


Jim

Last edited by Bigfly; 05-28-2011 at 07:28 PM.
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