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Old 02-08-2012, 03:34 AM
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Default Most fish actually evolved on land, not the sea

Source: New Scientist

Science is always good for an awesomely counter-intuitive finding, and this one has to be the mother of them all. Despite the fact that life itself originally came from the sea, the same can't be said of the ocean's current occupants.

Stony Brook researchers Greta Vega and John Wiens have found that about 75% of all living fish species trace their evolutionary history back to freshwater sources, not saltwater ones. If you go back 170 million years a time contemporaneous with the dinosaurs the ancestors of most fish alive today had never even ventured into the ocean, instead restricting themselves to the rivers and lakes where they had first evolved about 300 million years ago.

The scientists say we can't be absolutely sure about what happened before that, but we know of some pretty famous examples of sea creatures that got their start in freshwater: dolphins and whales. These mammals most likely evolved from wolf-like creatures that at one point lived mostly, if not exclusively on land before beginning the slow evolutionary transition to a life at sea. The same might well be true for most fish.

If that's the case, then it raises the obvious question of where all the original sea creatures went. According to the researchers, mass extinctions likely played a role. We know extinction events like the Permian-Triassic event 250 million years ago killed up to 95% of all marine species, and generally the seas suffer the most in any mass extinction.

While life was all but wiped out in the ocean, the freshwater habitats might have proved more conducive to survival, allowing these one-time landlubber fish to survive and eventually repopulate the oceans, becoming the seas' new dominant form of life. Maybe this whole "living on land" thing really was just a huge mistake after all.
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Old 02-08-2012, 03:46 AM
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Default Re: Most fish actually evolved on land, not the sea

As a person with a background in Paleontology (see photo)
Click the image to open in full size.
I am coming at this from a not uneducated angle. I enjoy and even support the nontraditional and heretical aspects of Paleontology for the most part. I met a guy named Robert T Bakker back when I was working in the field who challenged a great deal of accepted thinking. Turns out he was likely right on a great deal of it. This on the other hand is not supported by anything I have ever seen in the fossil record, and in the words of Mojo, I have to call BS.

On a side note, he wrote a number of books. Just joking one day he told me he had to fire his illustrator, he couldn't afford him anymore. Look at one of his books and you will see the humor in that.
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Old 02-08-2012, 03:47 AM
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Default Re: Most fish actually evolved on land, not the sea

I am not seeing the connection between this post and fly fishing???

Dave
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Old 02-08-2012, 04:18 AM
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Default Re: Most fish actually evolved on land, not the sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by littledavid123 View Post
I am not seeing the connection between this post and fly fishing???

Dave
Maybe the fish? I don't know, I still have to call BS on it.

---------- Post added at 04:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:52 AM ----------

OK, all joking and fun aside. There is a practical aspect to this. In science you can never prove anything, which is why it's still the theory of gravity. We don't deny the existance of gravity or for that matter what it does. We can easily quantify it's effects throughout the universe and without our ability to understand gravity, we would not have Einstien's theory of relativity. Nevertheless, gravity by the rules of science is just a theory. Science has rules. A framework. I look at those rules with no less reverence than if Moses stepped into my Driveway with stone tablets and the tree in my yard burst into flames and yelled at me "Hey listen to this guy". Those of you who have seen my posts for the past few years, I'm sure know about my serious allergy to BS. This just about gives me a rash.

As far as evolutionary theory goes, I am a cladist. I find comfort in things like ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny. I dislike anytime where a hypothisis is put forth that so disregards small items such as the entire fossil record, cladistics, and even evolutionary theory such as punctuated equilibria. I would pay fairly good money to set at a table with the guy that came up with this and have a long conversation. I would need to see some serious fossil evidence before I would not have the strong urge to laugh in his face.
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Old 02-11-2012, 03:54 PM
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Default Re: Most fish actually evolved on land, not the sea

There is no "fact" that life originally started in the sea. That is called theory. I call BS and also wonder the relation between that and fly fishing.
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Old 02-11-2012, 04:31 PM
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Default Re: Most fish actually evolved on land, not the sea

I am piqued...
I am waiting for the fireworks...
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Old 02-11-2012, 04:47 PM
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Default Re: Most fish actually evolved on land, not the sea

Interesting post. I have no ablility to judge truth of such things but interesting.

As for connection to fly fishing, it's about fish. How directly do articles need to be connected to fishing to be ok?
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Old 02-11-2012, 05:35 PM
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Default Re: Most fish actually evolved on land, not the sea

Maybe because it has nothing to do with Fly fishing. It's all Theory of Evolution.
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Old 02-11-2012, 05:49 PM
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Default Re: Most fish actually evolved on land, not the sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by john2snakes View Post
Maybe because it has nothing to do with Fly fishing. It's all Theory of Evolution.

So a wolf became a fish... Sounds like a Disney movie.

Dave
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Old 02-11-2012, 09:19 PM
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Default Re: Most fish actually evolved on land, not the sea

Being an expert on such things, I'll comment with this: Back when the earth was flat and brook trout were the size of Megladon Sharks, Hell I was there! (Apologies to Elmer and Skeeter) In the beginning the oceans were primarily fresh water since the minerals hadn't leached out of the flat land mass called Pan Gee Hah since it was flat as a pan and folks often exclaimed, "Geee hah!" (profanity hadn't been invented yet) When they realized that. When the big split up occured it broke open a lot of mineral deposits and then as it rained the run off caused the oceans to turn salty and about then a lot of the fish realized the Megladons were eating machines and after the biggest critters which lived in the salt so the brook trout decided to shrink in size swam up into the little freshwater streams where we find them today! Tying up the last loose end, the fly rods back then were really whippy being made from the giant willow reeds that were some of the first of the flora and the line was braided from Cave mans whiskers which led to the saying it's so easy even a Cave Man can do it! Speaking of fly fishing of course!
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