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Old 05-10-2013, 11:43 PM
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Default Re: Alaskans to D.C.: Stop Pebble Mine From Destroying 14,000 American Jobs

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Originally Posted by stenacron View Post
Shame on all of us for our insatiable dependency on material possessions. We have only ourselves to blame for Pebble.
How about you lead by example. Ditch the car, the house, electricty, the TV and show us how to live.
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:50 PM
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Default Re: Alaskans to D.C.: Stop Pebble Mine From Destroying 14,000 American Jobs

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Originally Posted by Diver Dan View Post

How about you lead by example. Ditch the car, the house, electricty, the TV and show us how to live.
Yeah, that ain't happening.

Because just like every last one of the people freaking out over Pebble Mine, I really need all of this ****!
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Old 05-11-2013, 06:52 AM
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Default Re: Alaskans to D.C.: Stop Pebble Mine From Destroying 14,000 American Jobs

Joe, the EPA is filled with frothing at the mouth wackos ready to crucify anyone carrying a gold pan, dip stick or singing "Coal Miners Daughter". The people living by Bristol Bay could have voted for the mine and it wouldn't make a difference, the EPA is going to take its time, do a complete study and never pass this thing.

The only sense of urgency is coming from the non-profits trying to fill their pockets before the EPA rules against the mine.

Dave
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:55 PM
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Default Re: Alaskans to D.C.: Stop Pebble Mine From Destroying 14,000 American Jobs

I'm on board. I'm not trying to sway anyone's opinions one way or another, I'm exercising the right to express mine. My stance is not based on political or economical stance, I'm going with personal experiences I've seen through the years in my home state. Studies to me, are only as good to me as the groups who produce them and the individuals who fund them. There are going to be PRO and CON studies I'm sure depending on whom you ask.

I have seen first hand the damage that mining can do to streams. It's taken a long time for some of PA's streams to overcome the mining from years past that's lead to acid mine leakage into our waterways. Some have been damaged beyond repair so it seems, others have made a come back. Currently, fracking is going on everywhere you turn your head in this state. Some of the streams I've fished through the years have never been the same since the fracking began.

I am in favor of preserving what few remaining pristine places we have left on this planet, Lord knows we've done damage through the years to it. We've also made some positive strides, so I don't see it all as doom and gloom. I just prefer to see the few wonderful places like this remain the way nature grew it and intended it. Once these resources are wiped out, they can take a lifetime if ever to be rehabilitated.
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Old 05-11-2013, 02:39 PM
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Default Re: Alaskans to D.C.: Stop Pebble Mine From Destroying 14,000 American Jobs

I can see why you think there could be damage being where you are at, but regulations have changed a lot since they did what they did to places like Pittburg, New Jersey, Detroit and places like that. But people are not looking at any facts. There have been none offered, none referenced. The lack of research, politicised opinions based on a complete lack of research into the backgrounds of the people driving those baseless opinions, willingness to circumvent law, due process and the Constitution are nothing less than stunning.

What I find particularly amusing is that many of the same rabid people out to destroy any US based resources, have the unmitigated gall to say out of the other side of their mouths, "The rest of the world hates us because we take all their resources." It would be funny if it were not so destructive. And for those of you that think the finacial collapse of us and or the world will have positive effects, look at what poor countries do to the environment.

It would be advisable to look into the background of everything these days before you give any of them a dime, and that goes for the people running them. Many groups that once were good are now run by peple I would have arrested for sedition if it were up to me.
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Old 05-11-2013, 07:12 PM
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Default Re: Alaskans to D.C.: Stop Pebble Mine From Destroying 14,000 American Jobs

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Originally Posted by littledavid123 View Post
We havn't permitted a new oil refinery in 30 years
Dave
True that, but did the echo chamber also inform you of how many refineries were closed 30-35 years ago to drive supply down and prices up? You may think that the oil companies have nothing but the best intentions for this country at heart but many of us 'feel' otherwise... especially after being held hostage by them over the years.
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Originally Posted by littledavid123 View Post
but who is draining us of our cash?
Dave
Are you honestly trying to convince me (us) that the oil companies aren't into everyones pockets both directly AND indirectly? The fact they are the most profitable companies around doesn't tell you just a little something?
I don't think businesses are evil as they once were but modern big businesses with their 'next quarter' mindset ARE evil.
If you were refering to government being in our pockets big-time, I said back in the '70's that someone would have to make up for the lost taxes that shipping millions of jobs offshore would cost us. I ain't no Harvard wiz kid but even I could see the problems that outsourcing, top-heavy , outlandish exec pay and short-term profit takers would bring down upon this country. I was right, the bean counters were wrong but then they knew that. They knew that far fewer people would make out like bandits with their schemes and those few, say 1% of the populace, are sitting prettier than their wildest dreams. These are the same people those who cry like babies because they, gasp, might be asked to make up for the lost tax base that they themselves caused.
In the country our forefathers handed us (remember it?) the envy of the world and the richest, happiest country on the planet, everyone prospered. Now you would probably call it Socialism because everyone was fairing well but it worked. We had VERY wealthy people back then, our tax coffers were flush with money and everyone could afford living a decent lifestyle because business owners back then knew that paying employees here meant customers for their goods.
Sorry about the rant but I just get sick and tired of people cheerleading those who put the screws to us ever tighter.
I'm told by the echo chamber that a poor man never gave them a job. To that I say, when that poor man had a job and was paid a fair days wage for a fair days work and didn't have to compete with Communist Red Chinese wages to hold a job here, they created jobs simply buy being one of millions of Americans who were good consumers, workers and tax payers who didn't hide their tax payment in the Caymans and such.
I guess the bottom line is that the oil companies are very far from being the great Americans you would have us think they are. They own this country through their ability to buy politicians and cable 'news' networks.

Let's go fishing while the waters still support that species.

---------- Post added at 06:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:51 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by stenacron View Post
Food for thought; 14,000 local jobs rely on that Bristol Bay fishery... and that's a pretty impressive number that generates much fanfare. Conversely a large chunk of the global economy and 100% of civilized society's life style (worldwide) rely on mining.

The funny part is, the power to stop Pebble Mine (or any mine) is well within the power of the people, and they wouldn't have to do much at all. Just cut off the demand, and those that are currently willing to spend and lend $4 billion to make the supply would be forced to fold up the tents. So the question is, how many of us are willing to give up all of our possessions that rely on the extraction of precious and/or base metals?
Just take a look around from exactly where you're sitting right now... how many things in your sight were "grown" and how many were mined?
Shame on all of us for our insatiable dependency on material possessions. We have only ourselves to blame for Pebble.
In your post you mention very little about another item everyone absolutely needs, food. That's actually quite important stuff in some circles.
The number of jobs the bay as it stands now might not impress but the volume of good, clean, wholesome and naturally renewable food should. If we can keep this one little source of food clean and available for decades to come who knows... there might somehow be big money in that for some Canadian carpetbaggers.
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Old 05-11-2013, 07:19 PM
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Default Re: Alaskans to D.C.: Stop Pebble Mine From Destroying 14,000 American Jobs

I will not reply to a post like that.

Dave
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Old 05-11-2013, 08:25 PM
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Default Re: Alaskans to D.C.: Stop Pebble Mine From Destroying 14,000 American Jobs

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I will not reply to a post like that.

Dave
Like what? A post that is written from the head of a person who simply sees what is going on around him and who takes no marching orders from select 'news' sources who do nothing more than sing to the choir they created?
A person who, because he lived through the rot that both inbred parties brought to the dance, can honestly and proudly state that neither of the two major parties deserve my vote which I count as a vote of approval for what they have done? And one who stands proudly as an American with neither political party held in any sort of high esteem... but then I'm just going by actual experience in seeing how both parties conducted the business of the country.

No matter, don't respond to 'a post like that' again but please, tell me your take on as you put it, 'who is draining us of our cash?' I did.
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Old 05-11-2013, 09:36 PM
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Default Re: Alaskans to D.C.: Stop Pebble Mine From Destroying 14,000 American Jobs

I believe that those who wanted their voices heard regarding this topic have done so.

Before things get personal or become heated further we might give this a rest.

Thanks to everyone for their input.
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