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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 09-05-2013, 11:16 AM
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Default Re: Sometimes you have to kill "everything" to save something.

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Originally Posted by Rip Tide View Post
Some of the forums here in the northeast are blowing up about a pond in Maine that was "reclaimed" just last week to kill off introduced smelt.
From what I've read this pond held wild brook trout over 7 lbs and splake (brook trout, lake trout hybrids) that were larger.
One guy even referred to this pond as "Labrador south".
Lot of unhappy campers.
Just a mention about the Great Lakes...and the 'reason' for introducing Pacific Salmonids and European Brown Trout to those systems....I'm just sayin'.

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Last edited by king joe; 09-05-2013 at 11:16 AM. Reason: Forgot token sign off
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Old 09-05-2013, 01:22 PM
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Default Re: Sometimes you have to kill "everything" to save something.

So many will say it is all about the water. These fish demand good solid releases of clean cold water...all down stream love it.

Here we have the Upper Colorado Recovery Program.

The sport fish removal program has fostered ill feelings between our division and a huge group of sportsmen and women and regular citizens.

At last accounting for this year we are at 294 Million spent since 1989 and the results are meager.

Opportunity cost of that time and money to try other efforts is so huge its mind boggling.

When man goes into the water we usually encounter a problem we are not well suited to contend with.

If folks new how prolific the shock, poison and kill was on our staff's of federal and state workers they would quiver. It's not a balanced approach in most scenarios.
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Old 09-10-2013, 11:58 AM
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Default Re: Sometimes you have to kill "everything" to save something.

very interesting read
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Old 09-24-2013, 08:42 PM
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Default Re: Sometimes you have to kill "everything" to save something.

This kind of action is awesome in the sense of tying to restore a beautiful species that my grandchildren may once be able to appreciate.
Even if the project fails there will certainly be something to learn from it. Sometimes suffering consequences is the best way to learn. Simply not doing anything would be sad to see, especially with such a beautiful creature Native to the beautiful waters of the US.
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Old 09-11-2014, 11:21 AM
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Default Re: Sometimes you have to kill "everything" to save something.

Several of us avid fly fishermen have struggled with this issue here in New Mexico (and in Eastern Arizona) because most of our trout fishing streams have been ruined or badly damaged by recent wild fires and subsequent flooding.

I have read the other readers' comments and have had similar experiences. "Mudbug" mentions the Arizona fiasco, and I can confirm that one of my favorite fishing streams in the White Mountains was poisoned about a decade ago to encourage the Apache trout. A decade later, that section of stream is again fishable, hosting the hearty brown trout that have returned. Unfortunately, the Apache trout and the Gila trout don't seem to be nearly as hearty as some species like browns, rainbows, and hybrids. Now, the AZ Game and Fish Dept. is planning to kill off the browns in that stream again, and it will be another decade or so before there are fish to enjoy.

As "itchmesir" indicates, what ever happened to "the strongest survive" philosophy? At the very least, we should urge state game and fish departments and the US Federal Government to use means other than killing "non-native" species to save other species.

Although it may not be as effective and fast, there are other less costly management tools such as allowing anglers to keep more of their catch of "invasive" species such as brown trout. If we pursue the direction we have been going, I fear that there will be very few areas where stream fishers can enjoy catching fish that haven't been planted or stocked.

I guess I'm a whole lot more comfortable with letting mother nature take her course! Tom
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Old 09-11-2014, 12:24 PM
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Default Re: Sometimes you have to kill "everything" to save something.

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Originally Posted by tom hines View Post
[snip]

As "itchmesir" indicates, what ever happened to "the strongest survive" philosophy? At the very least, we should urge state game and fish departments and the US Federal Government to use means other than killing "non-native" species to save other species.

Although it may not be as effective and fast, there are other less costly management tools such as allowing anglers to keep more of their catch of "invasive" species such as brown trout.
The problem is that the game managers have time requirements *and* budget requirements and removing unwanted fish via angler is ineffective. Even in places with unlimited take there are still unwanted fish -- usually smaller and more elusive -- that cannot be removed that way. So the managers still have to either poison the water or electroshock, just to be sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom hines View Post
If we pursue the direction we have been going, I fear that there will be very few areas where stream fishers can enjoy catching fish that haven't been planted or stocked.
I don't think it's all that bad. Browns are prolific and hardy, hence the issues we have with them taking over streams. If at some point we decide not to create reservoirs of true native species I suspect the browns will move right back in with very little coaxing.

On the other hand, I think the Rio Grande Cutthroat is about the prettiest trout there is. I'm not saying the efforts are worth it, I'm still not sure, but I have to say that some of my best catches in the last few years have been wild RGCTs on the headwaters of NM streams above migration barriers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom hines View Post
I guess I'm a whole lot more comfortable with letting mother nature take her course! Tom
Yeah, I'm still on the fence about this. I would hate to think future kids won't have the opportunity to catch wild native trout in NM. Heck, even the native Rio Grand Sucker is worth stalking occasionally.

It's a tough call for me.
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Old 09-11-2014, 05:35 PM
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Default Re: Sometimes you have to kill "everything" to save something.

Fred: Interesting story for sure, like the others I don't know enough about this practice to make an informed decision.
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Old 09-11-2014, 07:10 PM
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Default Re: Sometimes you have to kill "everything" to save something.

Fred I'm not a believer in Poisoning streams as although it's a short term solution to rid the River in question of alien species how does anyone know the long term effect it might have as it's possible to travel downstream causing more long term problems & perhaps get into Drinking waters ???.

I remember a few years back when I was at McDougal Lodge in Alaska Joe The Postmaster at Sventna at the time who built The Post Office & His Log House told me that Pike had carelessly been put in all the Upland Lakes & said down the track there would be a problem.
He was spot on as a Lake which a Mates Lodge is on once held nice Rainbows now there's only Fat Pike.
Then a few months back Ard wrote where he couldn't Fish his Lake because The Fish & Game were Netting The Pike.

1080 Poison which was initially used over here for Rabbits & is now widely used for Wild Dogs Dingoes Cats Foxes & Pigs however we don't have The Bird populations we once had.
Brian
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Old 09-12-2014, 05:11 PM
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Default Re: Sometimes you have to kill "everything" to save something.

In MN it is common to poison out a lake that has been taken over by perch and sunfish to then stock trout, which do very well for several years until helpful people throw some other fish in there to give us more to catch. Then they start downhill again. Thing is, in MN before they do the poison route on a lake they open it for the summer for promiscuous fishing with no limits and use of live bait and lures before it's reclaimed. This at least gives people a shot at the fish before poisoning so they may be caught and eaten before being killed.
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Old 09-13-2014, 07:33 AM
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Default Re: Sometimes you have to kill "everything" to save something.

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Originally Posted by wf10f View Post
In MN it is common to poison out a lake that has been taken over by perch and sunfish to then stock trout, which do very well for several years until helpful people throw some other fish in there to give us more to catch. Then they start downhill again. Thing is, in MN before they do the poison route on a lake they open it for the summer for promiscuous fishing with no limits and use of live bait and lures before it's reclaimed. This at least gives people a shot at the fish before poisoning so they may be caught and eaten before being killed.
At least this approach seems to me to be a whole lot less wasteful! (also, probably makes fewer enemies among the people who fish for them!)
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