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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2013, 08:19 PM
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Default Re: C&F Fly Boxes: Are They Worth It?

I'm looking for suggestions for fly boxes for my AK trips. I have been getting the really cheap plastic boxes with the dividers at craft and hardware stores and I like them as far as being cheap and clear (nice to be able to see what's in the box without having to open it), but forget it as far as waterproof. Of course weight and bulk are factors on these trips. I need a box that can carry big streamers and lots of leech patterns and then something for lots of egg patterns. Thanks in advance for any help.
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:49 PM
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Default Re: C&F Fly Boxes: Are They Worth It?

I have several and love them. Like Jaybo, I bought mine on clearance. I also like the Scientific Anglers clear smaller boxes with the gasket
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:04 PM
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Default Re: C&F Fly Boxes: Are They Worth It?

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Originally Posted by jsquires View Post
I'm looking for suggestions for fly boxes for my AK trips. I have been getting the really cheap plastic boxes with the dividers at craft and hardware stores and I like them as far as being cheap and clear (nice to be able to see what's in the box without having to open it), but forget it as far as waterproof. Of course weight and bulk are factors on these trips. I need a box that can carry big streamers and lots of leech patterns and then something for lots of egg patterns. Thanks in advance for any help.
Here are the last one I have bought and have held up great, they are not clear, but they are nicely priced and 5 bucks, and something I have for some reason always done since my grandfather was tired of chasing boxes when I was little is I tie backing onto them and then usually tie it to my vest. Yeah it is weird but saves me from having to run like a fool.

Amazon.com: Small Fly Box by Wild Water, Hinged, Waterproof Seal (5.25" x 3.5" x 1.25"): Sports & Outdoors Amazon.com: Small Fly Box by Wild Water, Hinged, Waterproof Seal (5.25" x 3.5" x 1.25"): Sports & Outdoors
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:54 AM
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Default Re: C&F Fly Boxes: Are They Worth It?

May I stray off (my own) topic and comment on MrTrout's remark above?: As I see it, something created and made in a given country and then illicitly copied somewhere else poses an ethical issue. In the case of Hardy, and appreciating that, as a Britain, you may have greater sensitivity to this than us Americans, the current "performance" crop of Hardy rods and reels are not the Hardy products of our youth. Losing their grip on the dominant US fly fishing market to the plethora of "up-start" US rod and reel makers, the ownership of the quality reel reputation that was theirs to loose was lost by terrible marketing and worse planing. They declined to keep current, relying on their excellent and beloved but staid products incompetently marketed and distributed here by Cortland Line Co. When they began to go "modern" and introduced fine, innovative reels like the Gem, then Angel for example, hardly anyone noticed. It was only when they wrested their distribution away from Cortland and incorporated Hardy North America under the able leadership of an experienced American that things turned an abrupt corner. It was Hardy here that initiated an advanced technology/design Zenith/Proaxis SINTRIX line of rods to be built very well but affordably by using a particular high tech, two generation rod fabricating shop in Korea. Of course great Hardy designer, Howard Croston, was an integral and brilliant component of these rods (and reels) but they were conceived from the get-go to be Korean-built. I have no issue with this scenario though the old fashioned part of me would rather they were built in England or America but the contemporary reality is there is a division of labor here that yields the best from each contributing national culture to a terrific product. One US talent is for marketing and for those among us that consider George Anderson's Shootouts as not particularly relevant; Zenith may merely have been an also-ran had Anderson not screamed from the roof tops that this new Hardy was the best trout rod on the Planet (and he didn't even sell them at that time).
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:12 AM
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Default Re: C&F Fly Boxes: Are They Worth It?

Sweet & Salt
Extremely well said.
I agree with you about Americans doing so well in the marketing of their products. Who does marketing better than us? I started a new book yesterday, Salt, Sugar And Fat: How The Food Giants Hooked Us. Talk about champions of marketing - well, and some extremely addictive ingredients don't hurt (metaphorically speaking) either.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:39 AM
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Default Re: C&F Fly Boxes: Are They Worth It?

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Originally Posted by jaybo41 View Post
Jeepster, that's one helluva purchase on your part. Really nice find
Doesn't sound like he's too fond of that pile of boxes...maybe you should make him an offer.

I have one C&F box, it's a large nymph box, slits on one side, compartments on the other. I bought it marked way down, otherwise I wouldn't have it. I just can't justify $50 on a fly box. Anyway, it is very well built but heavy and bulky. I am growing more and more fond of the compartment style boxes. Unfortunately, the slit foam revolution has taken over. C&F is one of the only compartment box available.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:23 AM
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Default Re: C&F Fly Boxes: Are They Worth It?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetandsalt View Post
May I stray off (my own) topic and comment on MrTrout's remark above?: As I see it, something created and made in a given country and then illicitly copied somewhere else poses an ethical issue. In the case of Hardy, and appreciating that, as a Britain, you may have greater sensitivity to this than us Americans, the current "performance" crop of Hardy rods and reels are not the Hardy products of our youth. Losing their grip on the dominant US fly fishing market to the plethora of "up-start" US rod and reel makers, the ownership of the quality reel reputation that was theirs to loose was lost by terrible marketing and worse planing. They declined to keep current, relying on their excellent and beloved but staid products incompetently marketed and distributed here by Cortland Line Co. When they began to go "modern" and introduced fine, innovative reels like the Gem, then Angel for example, hardly anyone noticed. It was only when they wrested their distribution away from Cortland and incorporated Hardy North America under the able leadership of an experienced American that things turned an abrupt corner. It was Hardy here that initiated an advanced technology/design Zenith/Proaxis SINTRIX line of rods to be built very well but affordably by using a particular high tech, two generation rod fabricating shop in Korea. Of course great Hardy designer, Howard Croston, was an integral and brilliant component of these rods (and reels) but they were conceived from the get-go to be Korean-built. I have no issue with this scenario though the old fashioned part of me would rather they were built in England or America but the contemporary reality is there is a division of labor here that yields the best from each contributing national culture to a terrific product. One US talent is for marketing and for those among us that consider George Anderson's Shootouts as not particularly relevant; Zenith may merely have been an also-ran had Anderson not screamed from the roof tops that this new Hardy was the best trout rod on the Planet (and he didn't even sell them at that time).
S&S, it is very disappointing to see so much of the "Hardy" tackle now being imported from Korea, I understand why these things happen, market forces, labour costs etc, but it sort of takes the cream off the name.
I still own my late fathers cane rod, built by Hardy, spare tip in the landing net handle, a thing of beauty, probably made around 1930 or earlier, along with the perfect reel he used.
I am also fortunate in owning a number of Hardy reels, all made at the Alnwick factory, and I treasure them.
I treat them with respect, they somehow deserve it, unlike a couple of other Hardy reels I own, which are Korean made, the CC range.
Don't get me wrong, they look great, perform well, and I enjoy using them, but they are just a reel to me, ones I can use without worry of scratching them.
I also love my Winston and Sage rods, American made, and I envy you that you still have these wonderful manufacturers producing top notch gear in your country.
Hardy, as you state have made some seriously poor decisions, which has led them into this crisis, and I sincerely hope they can get over it and become strong again, and a world leader in fine tackle, as anglers I feel the loss of Hardy would hit us all badly.
I can't bring myself to pay the going rate for any Hardy rods, one, I am not particularly moved by the design of them, and two, if they aren't produced in England, they are vastly overpriced for an import.
As a lover of well made reels, Ari Harts, Abels, Bougles, etc, I am quite prepared to pay the going rate, as I see them hopefully as not just a fantastic bit of engineering, but a future investment.
Were some manufacturer to offer me a Hardy Perfect copy, it wouldn't interest me even at half the price, I would always know it wasn't the real deal.
Getting back to fly boxes, they are in my eyes more of a basic everyday, almost throw away item, and at $5 a piece, if I broke one or lost one I would get over it.
As a child of the 50s I always strove to own anything Hardy, it was THE name to go for in those days, due to finances in my youth, (I normally ended up with an Intrepid reel or a Woolworths fishing rod,) but unfortunately that no longer applies, Hardy just doesn't have that pull anymore.
I hope all that makes some sense, and answers your question a little.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:33 AM
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Default Re: C&F Fly Boxes: Are They Worth It?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsquires View Post
Sweet & Salt
Extremely well said.
I agree with you about Americans doing so well in the marketing of their products. Who does marketing better than us? I started a new book yesterday, Salt, Sugar And Fat: How The Food Giants Hooked Us. Talk about champions of marketing - well, and some extremely addictive ingredients don't hurt (metaphorically speaking) either.
Great book, I have read this one, and someone like me that is weird about what they eat, it amazes me what people will stick in their pie holes, but sadly many do not know, which is common in this world, people are uneducated and usually follow what they are first told. If you have Netflix there are some great documentaries on there surrounding the same thought process as Michael Moss the author.
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:28 AM
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Default Re: C&F Fly Boxes: Are They Worth It?

MrTrout, We are getting into meatier (pun intended on food marketing comments) matters here with modern Hardy's changes in character, than fly boxes. I read not long ago that Richard Wheatly was in economic trouble too, no doubt due to the plethora of cheap imitations in concert with changing tastes in how to store flies...our core subject here. In my youth I had but one reel, an Ohio-built Pflueger Medalist, and on visits to Abercrombies and William Mills in NYC, I would gaze longingly at Perfects, St. Georges and Lightweights and, ultimately, did buy my first quality reel, an LRH.

I am fishing two Korean-built Zeniths and one Proaxis from modern Hardy and they are very fine casting and fishing rods and the performance of the Hardy U DD is far superior to my beloved and retired LRH (which is scratched up some). At the recent Somerset Fly Fishing Show, I had the opportunity to cast the Alnwick-built "Artisan" designed by the same wonderful Howard Croston that devised the tapers for Zenith. Its craftsmanship and components outshone the Korean-made rod by a mile though, in a side-by-side casting comparison to an equivalent Zenith...it was Zenith I preferred. Also that awful modern-day issue of cost reared its unattractive head; Artisan on these shores retails for over $1,200.00, even its Ari't Hart aesthetic-inspired reel seat can't justify that price. I do, however, empathize with your profound disappointment in the changes at Hardy and, along with you, anxiously await the announcement of new ownership of the fly and castle brand. I would feel much the same were venerable Abel, Scott or Sage, all of which, through ownership and even designer changes, have wisely preserved their employee base of skilled and dedicated craftsmen and persist in building everything with their name on it themselves.

Regarding the utility, quality and value of (back to the thread) fly boxes, the more I read your and everyone elses comments the more I am realizing that the one piece of tackle I make from scratch myself (OK, I build my leaders too) or am gifted by my fine friends and fishing partners are flies. They deserve to be displayed and protected in boxes worthy of their value to me. In the box illustrated in my opening comments, reside a few flies I tied decades ago, salvaged from the lidded compartments of well worn old Wheatlys. And, when I buy a new gasket sealed fly box, which is not too often, I stride into a riverside fly shop with my vest on to determine which model and size will fit ideally into the intended pocket. And I have just talked myself into it; next box I buy I will pay extra for the original C&F or SA version no matter how good and inexpensive the rip-off imitations of them may be. To paraphrase Bob Dylan; you say it costs $2, will you please take $3?
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:50 AM
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Default Re: C&F Fly Boxes: Are They Worth It?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetandsalt View Post
MrTrout, We are getting into meatier (pun intended on food marketing comments) matters here with modern Hardy's changes in character, than fly boxes. I read not long ago that Richard Wheatly was in economic trouble too, no doubt due to the plethora of cheap imitations in concert with changing tastes in how to store flies...our core subject here. In my youth I had but one reel, an Ohio-built Pflueger Medalist, and on visits to Abercrombies and William Mills in NYC, I would gaze longingly at Perfects, St. Georges and Lightweights and, ultimately, did buy my first quality reel, an LRH.

I am fishing two Korean-built Zeniths and one Proaxis from modern Hardy and they are very fine casting and fishing rods and the performance of the Hardy U DD is far superior to my beloved and retired LRH (which is scratched up some). At the recent Somerset Fly Fishing Show, I had the opportunity to cast the Alnwick-built "Artisan" designed by the same wonderful Howard Croston that devised the tapers for Zenith. Its craftsmanship and components outshone the Korean-made rod by a mile though, in a side-by-side casting comparison to an equivalent Zenith...it was Zenith I preferred. Also that awful modern-day issue of cost reared its unattractive head; Artisan on these shores retails for over $1,200.00, even its Ari't Hart aesthetic-inspired reel seat can't justify that price. I do, however, empathize with your profound disappointment in the changes at Hardy and, along with you, anxiously await the announcement of new ownership of the fly and castle brand. I would feel much the same were venerable Abel, Scott or Sage, all of which, through ownership and even designer changes, have wisely preserved their employee base of skilled and dedicated craftsmen and persist in building everything with their name on it themselves.

Regarding the utility, quality and value of (back to the thread) fly boxes, the more I read your and everyone elses comments the more I am realizing that the one piece of tackle I make from scratch myself (OK, I build my leaders too) or am gifted by my fine friends and fishing partners are flies. They deserve to be displayed and protected in boxes worthy of their value to me. In the box illustrated in my opening comments, reside a few flies I tied decades ago, salvaged from the lidded compartments of well worn old Wheatlys. And, when I buy a new gasket sealed fly box, which is not too often, I stride into a riverside fly shop with my vest on to determine which model and size will fit ideally into the intended pocket. And I have just talked myself into it; next box I buy I will pay extra for the original C&F or SA version no matter how good and inexpensive the rip-off imitations of them may be. To paraphrase Bob Dylan; you say it costs $2, will you please take $3?

I have cast with the Zenith, and I agree, it's a fine rod, I just don't need anymore rods, can't believe I said that!! Reels are my soft spot, just can't say no to a fine reel.
I meet Howard a few times a year on my local river the Eden, always nice to have a chat with him.
I think you should pay whatever you're comfortable with for an item of tackle, be it rod, reel or fly box, if it brings you happiness it's a good buy, isn't it?
I love anything fishing related, my latest small acquisition is a pair of Orvis brown trout pliers, why now? Well I just lost my others, and they look great on the vest, and I'm a big Orvis fan as well.
Did I need them, nah not really, but I'm not getting any younger and I enjoy nice things.
Go get your C&F, and have a great season.
S.

---------- Post added at 08:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:23 AM ----------

Another slight digression from the OP sorry, but talking about Chineese imports, this guy on the UK forums has been supplying a lot of the members with these.
I bought one of the Winston green Tripillar ones from him three seasons ago, and it has been used hard with no faults whatsoever.

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Silky smooth drags, great options on anodising and at 43 posted for a 6061 reel, it's a no brainer.
Does it fish and work as well as a Hardy, yep it does, will it double in value? Very much doubt it, but a great go to reel.
S.
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