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Old 01-06-2014, 08:09 AM
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Default Moving to the NW E/SE of Portland this year

Hi folks.

I should introduce myself as although i'm not new to FFF per-se I am new to FFF North America:

My name's Les Hudson and I currently live in the UK - Scotland to be precise. My wife is from WA and currently living in Battleground with her folks. I will be moving out to the NW to be with her once the visa process is completed - hopefully by the Summer.

My wife has a job in Portland and we are both hoping to find somewhere to live to the east or south-east of Portland - so maybe the outskirts of Gresham at a push, but preferably a little further out of the Portland metropolitan area, maybe Boring, Damascus or even Sandy (my personal preference ).

Through the UK FFF I was in touch with Fredaevans last year as I was advised, through the Scottish Wild Fishing Forum of which i'm a member (and so is he - hi Fred btw ) that he knew a thing-or-two about Oregon fishing, which, looking at the number of posts on here is clearly true! Fred was only able to give me very general advice (although welcome nonetheless) because my wife and I did not know at that stage where we were going to be living. Now we do.

Anyway, to cut to the chase as we say over here: assuming the areas mentioned are where we actually end up, it's obvious that my local river will be the Sandy. I've already done a fair amount of research, got the handle on permits, downloaded the relevant guides and regulations etc. so I know what's needed in terms of legal requirements within the Williamette Zone. What i'm scratching my head about a little bit though is the rules on exactly where on the Sandy anglers are allowed to fish (fly obviously although I very very occasionally do a bit of spinning but let's not talk about that ). I may be missing something obvious, in which case call me dumb if you like (you wouldn't be the first ), but, aside from the likes of obvious, listed places like Oxbow Park for instance, there seems little information on which other parts of the Sandy are legally accessible. I know the rules/laws about access to private land (which I assume lies adjacent to many stretches of the river) are different, but does that mean then that there are only a very few points where fly fishers can get on the water? how do I find out? I have done online searches but so far nothing has leapt out at me. Maybe i'm looking in the wrong places.

As well as Salmon and Steelhead fishing, I would be hoping to fish for trout. There is very little information on that, aside from the fact that there are Rainbow and Brook Trout and that, as far as I can ascertain, anglers are allowed and indeed encouraged to take the latter species as they're considered invasive?

I should add that I very much like the idea of getting into more remote areas, just like I do here in Scotland - packing a tent and a fly rod and fishing wild rivers and lochs/lakes. Again i'm not too certain about the rules regarding this activity and whether for instance additional fees and permits are required if you go to a particular wilderness area with fishing in mind. Any pointers/links would again be welcome. This wouldn't necessarily be in the Williamette Zone of course so I assume further permits would be needed unless there is any tradition of free fishing on more remote waters provided conservation rules don't prohibit this?

Finally, how far up the Sandy can fly fishers go? I know the upper part of the river on Mount Hood is preserved (can't remember how far down though. Don't have the documents in front of me). Also I read somewhere that the Marmot Dam was to be removed. Did this happen and if so what effect has this had on both the river, it's fish populations and permitted fishable areas?

Very sorry for the extremely long post but I thought I should make introductions and provide some background to why I was asking these questions.

Looking forward to speaking to future fellow NW fly fishers, and thanks in advance for any advice

Thanks also again Fred for your kind help.

Les
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Last edited by midgie hater; 01-06-2014 at 08:29 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 01-06-2014, 10:42 AM
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Default Re: Moving to the NW E/SE of Portland this year

Hear you Les.

First, our fishing regulations can be a bit confusing as to the when/where/for what. Read page xyz that refers you back to abc. That can be a pain where one sits.

Oregon fishing Reg's are broken down by 'Zones,' seven if memory serves, plus another set for Ocean and the Columbia River. There are 'general regulations' and then specific ones for a given river, timing, fish you can chase, etc.

But where you are there are two good things going for you: 1) the Fish and Game folks are wonderful to talk to/with. Straight shooters all and will get you sorted. 2) 'Flyfishusa' (web site and a 'sticks and bricks' major fly shoppe in Welches, Oregon. If you need 'stuff' this is THE place to go for 'stuff' and information on who/what/where/when.

If you want a guided trip, Mark Backman (SP?/owner) or one of his fellows is where you want to go. Misspelling of Mark's last name is a huge embarrassment as I've known him for years. Google the "Sandy River Spey 'Clave at "Oxbow" on the Sandy River. You DO want to go there! Hundreds of like minded 2hander nut cases.

As to where to fish you have a heck of a lot of choices within a two hour drive of your front door. Umpqua to the south, coastal stream to the west, the Deschutes (summer runs) to the east, etc.

Anyway, if you get the 'urge' to drive to southern Oregon let me know. I'll tell you what 'rock to stand on' just can't guarantee fishie will be there at that point in time. But I'll be pretty darned close on that one.

fae
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Old 01-06-2014, 11:37 AM
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Default Re: Moving to the NW E/SE of Portland this year

Hi Fred

Yes I realised that I mentioned you about three times in the original post! I wasn't trying to harangue you into responding, but to indicate to others that i'd interacted with a well-known member of this forum in another place in case they thought "who's this guy?" and were a little wary of imparting too much information. I suppose that's an effect of me being a WFF member where, as you'll know, information on fishing locations is carefully managed to avoid over-exposure.

Anyway, thanks for replying and for the information provided. It's heartening to read your appraisal of the regulatory "quagmire". At least that means it wasn't me being slow I think too that i've come across the site for the place in Welches. I'll give it another look as I was doing specific searches for information on the Sandy rather than things like tackle/flies/guiding etc.

I've got a handle on the zones to some extent after downloading both the Oregon fishing regs. pdf and the Williamette Zone pdf too but as you confirm, these only go so far in explaining the "where". The "when" in terms of different species is much clearer though - or less unclear perhaps.

Very heartening to hear that the local fly anglers are a friendly, welcoming bunch. I look forward to meeting some people when I eventually get there - and hopefully yourself too once I start roaming further afield. If I recall I think you said you were in Medford further south? Yes, in fact your profile info on the post confirms that.

You mentioned the Umpqua and the Deschutes, both of which i've read about a little. I have an excellent book on Oregon backpacking routes by a guy called Douglas Lorain, and at least one of his itineraries covers wilderness treks in the vicinity of the Umpqua. He makes occasional mention of "good fishing" in some of his route descriptions for various areas without going into any detail, but it gave me starting points for further searches. I suppose too that the Clackamas is fairly close and a realistic destination even for day trips from the area of Oregon we're likely to be living? He also mentions good fishing in the Bull of the Woods wilderness area. I've read a little about the Spey Clave too. Glad to hear that is a "must visit" as it would obviously be pretty close by to our chosen locale.

Hopefully those more local to the area will be able to flesh things out a bit when/if they come across my post. Oh and I should stress that i'm not asking folks to impart info. on specific marks or fishing holes. I realise that we "fluff-flingers" (and anglers in general) often like to keep our favourite, productive spots a little close to our chests.

So thanks again. Advice much appreciated

Les
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Old 01-09-2014, 07:18 PM
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Default Re: Moving to the NW E/SE of Portland this year

So... any NW fly fishers to the SE of Portland on here who can add anything to Fred's excellent reply? Love to hear more about the Sandy and the Clackamas, as well as the potential for wilderness trips with a fly rod

Thanks all. Les H
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Old 01-09-2014, 08:07 PM
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Default Re: Moving to the NW E/SE of Portland this year

Wilson River Fishing map: https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U...17323&t=h&z=12

This will take a few seconds to 'load up' but its a 'hole by hole' run of the majority of the river. I'll dig up a couple more and post up the links.

Fred

---------- Post added at 05:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:26 PM ----------

Free monthly news letter (you just sign up and it comes to you via e-mail) from the Fish and Game folks. I've found the thing (all be it a bit dated) to be pretty darned accurate of general fishing conditions 'zone by zone.'

Recreation Report: Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife

Oregon Stream flows: http://waterdata.usgs.gov/or/nwis/current/?type=flow

---------- Post added at 05:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:41 PM ----------

River maps: Published Maps Oregon/Washington BLM

---------- Post added at 06:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:57 PM ----------

North Umpqua: Umpqua River Segment 3 - Gravel Bin to Bogus Creek
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Old 01-09-2014, 09:13 PM
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Thumbs up Re: Moving to the NW E/SE of Portland this year

Fred, that is very kind of you (again) thanks. I'll have a good look at all this over the weekend when I have more time

Cheers, Les
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Old 01-10-2014, 11:10 AM
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Wink Re: Moving to the NW E/SE of Portland this year

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Originally Posted by midgie hater View Post
Fred, that is very kind of you (again) thanks. I'll have a good look at all this over the weekend when I have more time

Cheers, Les
Hear you. Load up your printer with paper ... you may be going through a lot of it .....

Fred
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Old 01-10-2014, 04:09 PM
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Default Re: Moving to the NW E/SE of Portland this year

Quote:
Originally Posted by midgie hater View Post
Hi folks.

Anyway, to cut to the chase as we say over here: assuming the areas mentioned are where we actually end up, it's obvious that my local river will be the Sandy. I've already done a fair amount of research, got the handle on permits, downloaded the relevant guides and regulations etc. so I know what's needed in terms of legal requirements within the Williamette Zone. What i'm scratching my head about a little bit though is the rules on exactly where on the Sandy anglers are allowed to fish (fly obviously although I very very occasionally do a bit of spinning but let's not talk about that ). I may be missing something obvious, in which case call me dumb if you like (you wouldn't be the first ), but, aside from the likes of obvious, listed places like Oxbow Park for instance, there seems little information on which other parts of the Sandy are legally accessible. I know the rules/laws about access to private land (which I assume lies adjacent to many stretches of the river) are different, but does that mean then that there are only a very few points where fly fishers can get on the water? how do I find out? I have done online searches but so far nothing has leapt out at me. Maybe i'm looking in the wrong places.

As well as Salmon and Steelhead fishing, I would be hoping to fish for trout. There is very little information on that, aside from the fact that there are Rainbow and Brook Trout and that, as far as I can ascertain, anglers are allowed and indeed encouraged to take the latter species as they're considered invasive?

Finally, how far up the Sandy can fly fishers go? I know the upper part of the river on Mount Hood is preserved (can't remember how far down though. Don't have the documents in front of me). Also I read somewhere that the Marmot Dam was to be removed. Did this happen and if so what effect has this had on both the river, it's fish populations and permitted fishable areas?


Les
Les,
Winter Steelhead begin entering the Sandy River with the first winter rains usually about the middle of December. The winter run winds down in March and a summer run of hatchery fish start entering. This fishery lasts until sometime in June for the spey rodder when the river warms and drops low. It then gets polluted with drinking rafters. The winter run consist of some wild fish and broodstock hatchery fish. The wild fish are ESA listed. Most of the walk in access for the spey angler is from Oxbow Park down and most of it is within the park. It is a big beautiful park with several nice runs. The river is easily floated from oxbow down giving access to much more water. Anglers may fish this water from a boat. Above the Oxbow boat ramp this is not allowed. The river above oxbow is much more technical requiring white water equipment and skills. Many guides both fly and gear offer floats on this section. Marmot dam was removed to provide more wild fish access to the upper river. Before the dam was removed hatchery winter fish were culled out there. The river gets alot smaller above the old dam site and access is limited. Although the Sandy has some trout it is not a good flyfishing trout stream in my opinion. Hatches are sparse, as they are on most west slope streams, and the fish are small and mostly salmoniod smolts. Most Portland area trout fishers head east of the cascades to Central Oregon. I hope this info helps... Let me know if you need any other general info...
~Jay

Last edited by dillon; 01-15-2014 at 12:34 PM.
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Old 01-10-2014, 04:14 PM
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Default Re: Moving to the NW E/SE of Portland this year

Welcome to the forum Les.

Hopefully we can meet up in OR or WA as I am looking for a job in those states right now.
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Old 01-10-2014, 06:22 PM
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Default Re: Moving to the NW E/SE of Portland this year

Hello Les,

I think your intro was a good one! However, I am not in your new home area and so can't offer much in the way of help. Fred will no doubt get you sorted as well as possible and I wish you the very best in your new home.

Welcome to the forum

Ard
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