New here, going to NM in Sept.

[tennswede]

Hello everyone,

I'm new here and would really like some suggestions. I live in east Tn, (Knoxville) and I am going to NM in september this year. I have a list of rivers I would like to fish. My problem is that the list is getting too long. I would appreciate if anyone with experience from the area would let me know which rivers to skip. I understand they are all probably worth a visit but my time and money is limited. Here's the list:

1. San Juan Tailwater
2. Rio Costilla
3. Red River
4. Cimmarron
5. Rio De Los Pinos
6. Rio Grande
7. Rio Conejos in CO
8. Animas River in Co.

Any of these you would not do and why?, also any I should add?

Maybe Pecos, Chama, what do you all think. Decisions, decisions, it's killing me. I do want to limit my travel time so I need to be in an area between Red River area on the east and on over to Durango, CO. I do not want to go any further south than Taos area roughly. Any help appreciated. If anyone ever comes to Tn, NC I can help out with some info.

Thanks,

 

[mcnerney]

tennswede: I can't help much, I have only fished the San Juan, it is a fantastic river, but unless you are really good fishing high pressured tailwaters using size 24-28 flies and 8x leader, I would highly recommend getting a guide.
Here is another source of information for you:
You might also want to tune into the Fly Fishing Internet Radio Show June 2 at 7 pm (MST). They will have a show titled "Wild Rivers of Northern New Mexico" with guide Doc Thompson. Doc, a professional guide for 15 years, has been taking fly fishers to where the fish are in the wild rivers of northern New Mexico including the Rio Grande, Cimmaron and the Rio Castilla.
Fly Fishing - Internet Radio

Good luck with your trip it sounds like it will be lots of fun.

Larry

 

[tennswede]

Larry,

Thanks for the tip on the radio show, I have listened to their programming before. As for small flies and the San Juan. Yes, I know a little bit of tailwater fishing. I do some of that here in Tn. Mainly the South Holston and Clinch. I use Zebra midges down to size 24 quite frequently. I don't expect to wear em' out or anything but I think I should be able to at least get a fish or two.

Thanks,

 

[mcnerney]

tennswede: If you have fished zebras down to size 24 you should be ablr to hold your own on the San Juan. Here is a link to additional info for fishing the San Juan: San Juan River Fly Fishing

You might also be interested in listening to the episode "Fly Fishing the San Juan" by John Tavenner on Fly Fishing Internet Radio: John Tavenner | Fly Fishing

Larry

 

[tennswede]

Larry,

Thanks again for all your tips of information sources. I'm really looking forward to this trip.

Hans

 

[mcnerney]

Hans: I think you have planned a great trip, be sure to post a trip report when you get back!

Larry

 

[Fly2Fish]

Hans, you might want to check High Desert Anglers' Fly Fishing Report for Northern New Mexico. In addition, Doc Thompson, a guide mentioned by Larry who specializes in northern New Mexican trout waters other than the San Juan has a website which charts and describes the optimal times for fishing the various northern New Mexico fisheries: Northern New Mexico Waters | High Country Anglers. You can also sign up for his newsletter which will keep you updated.

In addition, there are specialized forums on the San Juan like San Juan river fly fishing in New Mexico by Mike Mora as well as San Juan River Fly Fishing, also mentioned by Larry. Larry's also right about a guide being unusually helpful on this great but very technical and highly-pressured river, so even though you do have experience with similar mid-#20 size flies on Tennessee tailwaters, if you get frustrated after a day there, you can probably get a guide last minute at Abe's (a fly-shop/restaurant/gas station/motel right in the area. For some reason - maybe because there are so many of them - guides for the San Juan seem to be less expensive than other areas.

Good luck. I will be very interested in hearing how your trip works out, since although I have fished the San Juan and Los Pinos (up near Durango, however) with good results, I'm also interested in fishing some of these other streams that you mentioned.

 

[tennswede]

Fly2fish,

Thanks for the links, Yeah, I have done the internet research and know of most of the online resources for the state. I guess what I'm trying to look at now is to narrow down my list. Have you fished any of the others on my list? I'm curious as to which ones I should drop. I don't want to overdo it. I would like to concentrate on no more than six rivers. I have 8 full days to devote to rivers. I doubt I can handle 8 full days non stop but I will try to fish somewhere on most of those days. If anyone can tell me which river or rivers they would drop from the list and if there are any to add, I would be ever so grateful.

Also, you mentioned Abe's. I'm actually booked at their motel for the firs half of my trip. The second half I'm staying at a chain motel in Red River.

 

[Fly2Fish]

Hans, I would look at this page on Doc Thompson's website for getting more in-depth reviews of the various waters you are considering: Northern New Mexico Waters | High Country Anglers. Note also that September is prime fishing time for all those waters you are considering.

I have fished other New Mexican waters such as the Rio Grande, the Chama and (in southern Colorado, the Los Pinos), but critical to that is selecting the right section of those rivers. New Mexico, as beautiful a state as it is, does not in my opinion conduct a "generous" stocking and trout wildlife program, so insider knowledge is critical for good fly-fishing. That usually means a guide, at least initially, although local fly-shops can help. As you probably know, you're also going to be fishing small-stream country - maybe among the best - so I'd be thinking 3 or even 2-weight short rods. However, for the San Juan you will want a longer rod in the 4-6 weight range.

Hope this helps . . .

Neil

 

[cimarron]

I have fished several years around the Cimarron area. I see you have the Cimarron river and the Rio Costilla on your list. Definitely fish the Rio Costilla. It is in the Valla Vidal area. The views alone make the drive worth it. The Rio isn't real challenging, as is the Cimarron, but it's a real pleasure to fish. While in the Valle, fish the Shuree ponds. They are stocked with 14-16" trout that are quite willing to hit a Hare's ear. Bring your float tube for the deeper sections. You can camp in the Cimarron campground which is 1/2 mile away. Drive into the Valle by going through Red River and Questa route. Cheers, Glen

 

[tennswede]

Neil,

Thanks again, one thing though, by reading between the lines in your reply, is Southern Colorado a better deal you think? I'm staying at Navajo Dam for the first half of my trip and in the town of Red River the second half. Both would'nt be too far from southern colorado.

---------- Post added at 11:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:20 AM ----------

Cimarron,

I'm actually staying in the town of Red River. I'm settled on Rio Costilla as one of my rivers to fish. The question is, which one or two should I drop from my list in the original post?
Any help is appreciated. This must be narrowed down.

 

[cimarron]

OK Hans, after re-reading your post, you want to eliminate choices. I'd go to the Valle Vidal and fish Rio Costilla and forget the Cimarron. The Rio will be much less crowded and much more pleasurable fishing. The Cimarron is right along side Hiway 64 and pretty brushy. The Rio is in the middle of 102,000 acres and you will probably have the stream mostly to yourself. You might have maybe 6-10 other fishermen at Shuree ponds but your chances of landing a 16" Rainbow are much higher. Did I mention a float tube? Since you'll be in Red River, it's about a 45-60 min drive up through Questa and Amallia. Only one road in so easy to find. Another thing, you won't have anyone wanting to charge you for your fishing. You don't really need a guide once your on the stream, just fish the inner bends and riffles, the stream is not very wide. The rainbows are smallish(8-10") but fun to fish. There's a fly shop in Red River, the Star Angler, that has some good supplies but be ready to pay $2.00/fly. Hope to be up there again myself in early Sept. Luck,Glen

 

[tennswede]

Glen,

I'm going to be in the Red river area September 8-13. I'm staying over at the Navajo Dam area Sept 4-8. Maybe we will run in to each other. I'm taking your advice and skip Cimarron. I'm sure it's a fine stream but I have to narrow the list down. I'm going to try Comanche creek also. Tight lines,

 

[Fly2Fish]

Neil,

Thanks again, one thing though, by reading between the lines in your reply, is Southern Colorado a better deal you think? I'm staying at Navajo Dam for the first half of my trip and in the town of Red River the second half. Both would'nt be too far from southern colorado.

Well, southern Colorado and northern New Mexico are continuations of one another . . . so I wouldn't necessarily favor one over the other, except that southern Colorado has more high country, which of course means more mountain streams. And as you note, from where you're staying, it's a short trip (45 minutes) to the Durango area, among others, so why not spend a day or two up there? You can't beat Abe's price-wise, so that's a great base of operations.

I think Glen/Cimarron sounds about as knowledgeable as anyone on the Forum about northern New Mexico, and I know I'd follow his advice. Another member who's pretty knowledgeable about New Mexican trout fly-fishing in general is Ken Morrow/Flyguy66. I'm surprised he hasn't chimed in on this thread, but you might want to send him a PM for his advice.

One thing I'll say - New Mexican trout may be on the small side (except for the San Juan, about what you'd expect for great small streams), but more beautiful country you'll never find. I only wish that the New Mexico Fish & Game Commission was up to speed in taking care of their trout waters, stocking, etc. Regardless, still my favorite state.

 

[tennswede]

Thank you for your insights. I've just finished a couple of books on fly fishing in NM, now I'm reading one about southern Colorado. I know of three rivers so far that I'm doing for sure. I'm kind of used to smaller trout from our mountain streams here in TN. We do have some decent sized fish in some tailwaters but I think maybe your trout is a little bigger on the average. If you fish headwater streams in the Great Smoky Mountains you will catch mostly 6-8 inch fish with an occasional 10 inch. If you catch a handful of 12 inch fish all season you have done exceptionally well. Our tailwaters have a lot of stockers in the 12-14 inch range. There are also a lot of holdover browns in the range of 18 inch and up. They are however not easy to catch. With all that said, I'm trying not to fish waters on this trip where I don't have a respectable chance of catching something at least 14 to 16 inch in length. I guess I'm after quality over quantity on this trip. Thanks again for your reply.

 

[Fly2Fish]

. . . With all that said, I'm trying not to fish waters on this trip where I don't have a respectable chance of catching something at least 14 to 16 inch in length. I guess I'm after quality over quantity on this trip. . . .

I would say the average trout - Rainbow, Brown or Cuttbow - that I have caught on the San Juan has been 18", all pretty much in the 16-22" range. However, the largest trout I have caught in the area was an extremely fat 24":stretcher - okay, 23" - Rainbow on the Los Pinos up near Durango :wow:. I released him after a good fight (on # 6 tippit), so hopefully he's still there, and maybe even bigger now :yikes:. Maybe he's waiting for you! :worthy:.

 

[tennswede]

Well, I'm back and I have to say San Juan was very tough on me. The pressure was high over the Labor Day weekend. I ended up catching a lot of smaller fresh stocker browns down low. I did loose three larger bows up at the C&R area one early morning. It was frustrating to say the least. They all took a Black Zebra Midge size 26. I think they were hooked very shallow in the mouth since they all came off the same way. One huge head shake.

I fished, Animas, and Piedra on the Southern Ute Reservation in Colorado. I tried Conejos and Rio Hondo as well as Rio Costilla in Valle Vidal. The highlight of the trip was Valle Vidal and Rio Hondo. I got a 12" Rio Grande Cutt on Rio Hondo and several smaller ones on Rio Costilla. It was a beautiful area and the trip went off without a hitch. In hindsight I think I would have cut the trip a day short on San Juan and then spend more time on Rio Costilla. All in all a great trip. Fishing could have been better but I know when you are a first time visitor it can be tough.

 

[peregrines]

Hey Tennswede,

Sounds like you had a great trip--- and some beautiful country.

You should be very proud of yourself-- just threading tippet on anything in a size 26 is quite an accomplishment as far as I'm concerned. I've never fished it, but I hear that those San Juan fish can make folks nuts.

And a big shout out to Cimarron and Fly2fish for the excellent advice on this thread.

 

[cimarron]

Glad your trip went well. Sounds like you caught plenty of fish. We had plenty of wind to contend with, but the stream fished well if you watched the wind direction. The cut throats weren't quite as active as I'd wished but we had plenty of fun. Next time allow for at least a day to fish Shuree ponds. As said earlier, the wind kind of hampered us the first day, but it slowed down a bit Sat. My buddy caught three 18"ers before I could get into the water. I managed to catch 2 18's on a #12 Damsel nymph, and let 2 get off. I love that part of the world. Hope they don't ruin it by drilling for gas. No bears this trip, but did see a heck of a nice bull Elk in a meadow. Cimarron/Glen

 

[Fly2Fish]

Cimarron & Tennswede (not sure if that stands for "Tennessee Swede" or "Tennis Weed"),

Really appreciate all you have contributed to our knowledge of the not-well-known northern New Mexican fly-fishing (other than the over-fished San Juan River). I don't know a more beautiful area to fish that doesn't have Grizzlies to watch out for (like my sojourn later this week to Jackson Hole/Grand Tetons/Yellowstone).

I've sent a PM to Ken Morrow/FlyGuy66, a very knowledgeable fly-fishing journalist and instructor in El Paso, the gateway to New Mexico. Hopefully he'll "reactivate" (since he's been quiet since last February) and chime in, as he has a lot of first-hand expertise on fly-fishing for trout in New Mexico. With his assistance and the contributions of Cimarron and Tennswede, this thread could become the authoritative reference for fly-fishing the lesser-known gems of New Mexico. :frogdance