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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2013, 03:38 AM
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Default Re: Gun's!! Who's got em, who leaves em??

Great points made by all! I own guns. I hunt! Love bird and duck hunting! But when I fish no guns. The worst thing I'm going to run into is a black bear and I have and dealt with it. Carrying a gun fishing would be a distraction for me and when I fish I want zero distractions with the exception of the nature around me! Because I'm a safety freak when it comes to guns I can see myself checking the holster often and always taking that second look to see if the safety is on etc and this distraction is what I dont want on a fishing trip. If I lived in lion or grizzly country would I carry? Probably not and would opt for pepper spray . There are to many accidents where I live now during hunting season when people should really be aware of their weapons don't need to have the same when fishing. And as far as carrying to deter human problems this can only lead to terrible results with someone either dead or in jail! Grew up in a tough area and guns never lead to any good resolution!
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2013, 07:49 AM
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Default Re: Gun's!! Who's got em, who leaves em??

In this area, with it's dense population, the possibility of an encounter with human trouble is always a possibility. As I said in my previous post, I've been "checked out" but have not actually been assaulted. There are some fishing spots, mostly places that bait fisherman would use, where there has been robberies & assaults. Those places have too easy access, but are out of the way enough that law enforcement patrols are not regular. Mostly the police would pass thru occasionally, & mostly at night. Some of these assaults have happened in the day light. Several years ago there was an older fellow robbed & beaten. It does happen.

I work mostly at night & alone. I go about doing my job, in & out of shopping centers & buildings, often in the back doors where there is little exposure to passing law enforcement. I do often see patrols, but more often nothing. I've been approached but again never had any real issues. I had a hooker pull a knife on me once, after I told her I wasn't interested in her "service" & demanded my wallet. She was stupid, a tiny girl and when I told her to leave or I would hurt her badly, she started to shake. She left without further incident. My size, I'm sure has some determent affect. However, my greatest fear is the one who would shoot me without provocation regardless of the circumstance. That can certainly happen anywhere, and I don't feel carrying could necessarily stop it.
I'm less concerned about such things when out fishing than I am while working. Like others have said, I'm constantly aware of my surroundings either way.

About 20 years ago, I was fishing alone on a small stream, and was approached by three younger men. My guess is they spotted my lone vehicle, which was just off the main road & decided to "check it out". I was not far up stream, so heard them as they got out of their vehicle. I left the stream & went up the bank to the trail. I was heading back towards my truck, when they came down the path. Young guys in their early 20's, perhaps even still in their teens. None of them carrying fishing gear or anything else that I could see.

The first guy, the "leader" I guess, said "hey, catching anything?" to which I answered, "no", not yet, just got here." He then said, "nice looking rod", I'll bet it's worth a lot". That cued me to their intent. I was wearing chest waders, and carrying my rod in my right hand. I simply passed my rod to my left hand, and slipped my right hand into the top of my waders, like I was reaching for something and simply said "you don't want to go there, it will turn out very bad". There was a few moments of stunned silence & the second guy said to the first "lets get outta here", and they turned around & left. My bluff had worked & I went back to my truck & hung out awhile to be sure they didn't come back. I continued fishing & a NRP officer came around after awhile & I told him of the incident. He said he would put the word out to other officers in the area to be watching for these guys. That's as close as I've ever come to actually wanting to be carrying.
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Old 06-09-2013, 06:57 PM
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Default Re: Gun's!! Who's got em, who leaves em??

I just spent about a week in the area of Glacier National Park, stopping here and there to look for fishing spots. Thats another story. But in Kalispell, the gal at the sports shop told us about the benefits of bear spray vs fire power against Mr. and Mrs. Griz. I guess unless you aim your bullets just right they might just ricochet off the beast. Apparently, the bear spray hits the sense of smell, which is quite sensitive. "I pine needle drops in the woods: the eagle sees it, the deer hears it and the bear smells it." My local friend bought the large size bear spray canister and carried it on him on our next outing into the back country. Before that, he did carry a legally owned assault style rifle when we went into some isolated areas looking for fishable waters. According to Park reg's, you are allowed to carry into the park arms that you legally own in your state. If you you tube the fishing expeditions out in Kumchaka you can see that those guys are escorted by armed guards for the sake of bears too. Yes, I know I was in the bear's territory and not the other way around. Yes, we did talk loud as per conventional wisdom for the sake of prevention. No, I don't even own a gun myself. But yes, I did feel safer having some one there who could pull either a trigger or a release button at a bear in case one got too close.
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Old 06-09-2013, 09:45 PM
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Default Re: Gun's!! Who's got em, who leaves em??

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtliving View Post
I just spent about a week in the area of Glacier National Park, stopping here and there to look for fishing spots. Thats another story. But in Kalispell, the gal at the sports shop told us about the benefits of bear spray vs fire power against Mr. and Mrs. Griz. I guess unless you aim your bullets just right they might just ricochet off the beast. Apparently, the bear spray hits the sense of smell, which is quite sensitive. "I pine needle drops in the woods: the eagle sees it, the deer hears it and the bear smells it." My local friend bought the large size bear spray canister and carried it on him on our next outing into the back country. Before that, he did carry a legally owned assault style rifle when we went into some isolated areas looking for fishable waters. According to Park reg's, you are allowed to carry into the park arms that you legally own in your state. If you you tube the fishing expeditions out in Kumchaka you can see that those guys are escorted by armed guards for the sake of bears too. Yes, I know I was in the bear's territory and not the other way around. Yes, we did talk loud as per conventional wisdom for the sake of prevention. No, I don't even own a gun myself. But yes, I did feel safer having some one there who could pull either a trigger or a release button at a bear in case one got too close.
The ruling to allow firearms inside National Parks was made two years ago. Fortunately, nothing has happened yet...that I've heard of.

Not to be overly critical of you and your friend, but carrying an AK while hiking in Glacier is, in my opinion, way over the top. Like I said, it was illegal to carry a firearm - or even take them into - the National Parks up till two years ago. And the number of bear - human conflicts that resulted in injury are statistically rare. Take into consideration the sheer volume of visitors hiking the trails in Glacier (probably a few million a season) and that a high percentage of them are virgins when it comes to being in bear country, the need for an assault rifle is a bit obscene.

Like you said, you were in the bear's world. Places like Glacier and Yellowstone Parks are The Last place that these animals have to their own. Every person that goes there is a visitor. These places are set aside for the wilderness.

Again, I don't mean to be harsh on you personally, but this is the kind of thing that I and many others that live around these places have feared. Carrying a semi-auto rifle while hiking in a National Park is dangerous stuff.
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2013, 10:08 PM
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Default Re: Gun's!! Who's got em, who leaves em??

Hey Dean
In my time...we (my crews) have had to dispatch only 1 grizz...and 2 blacks though we have fired bangers (bear bangers)...and 'warning' rounds many times. Never at a cat....but bull moose....lots of blacks...and grizz...have been "warned". In some cases, we have been very close to pulling the lethal trigger as our warnings are unheeded.

At a favourite float tube lake I walk into (the one I mentioned where the bears jump on our back packs)....when we came off the water once...a grizz was basically waiting. I fired warnings in the air...then at its feet...and only then, did it reluctantly turn. BUT, it followed us...dogged us 'just' in the trees as we walked the 5 km's out to the trucks. Literally the day later, my buddy had to drop a grizz walking INto the lake (he had his kids with him and the bear WASN"T backing down).

As has been said in this post often. Being smart is part of it... but being protected and aware things may not be like fishing at a stocked trout farm at the back of somebody's resort...probably is the best advise.

King Joe Outa Here!
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2013, 10:50 PM
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Default Re: Gun's!! Who's got em, who leaves em??

Yea, I hear you. My friend had actually been charged by a grizzly a couple of years ago and he is still mindful of that experience. After we heard about the benefits of bear spray vs fire power, he did stick with the spray only for our next outings.
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