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Old 11-17-2013, 09:06 AM
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Default Re: Bitterroot and the effect of too warm water on Cutthroat

I don't think it's prudent to jump on the bandwagon every time there is a chicken little announcement from the government. Calmer voices need to prevail and time needs to be taken so we get this thing right. In the meantime common sense approaches should continue to be implemented. Habitat restoration, greenbelts along our waterways and water use management are just a few of the common sense ideas we should all be doing.

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Old 11-17-2013, 09:49 AM
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Default Re: Bitterroot and the effect of too warm water on Cutthroat

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This is a difficult situation to remedy....

Dave
That part is for certain. And this is obviously a politically charged issue so I will tread lightly. If it's a natural cycle we are not fixing it. What scares me most is we don't have a great deal of control over the rest of the world where manufacturing has migrated to. Perhaps fixing the observed problems (afraid it's not just a theory), may be an insurmountable task. That said, I was raised on the Mississippi river. It was a sewer when I was a boy. It's a pretty fair fishery now. I am hoping we do what we reasonably can. Then again, I am the dreamer that fills a few vest pockets with other people's trash off the streamside, and finds it returned again next week.
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Old 11-17-2013, 10:09 AM
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Default Re: Bitterroot and the effect of too warm water on Cutthroat

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And this is obviously a politically charged issue so I will tread lightly.
Wise words. Don't think I've seen a political debate go anywhere productive on the forum.
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Old 11-17-2013, 11:30 AM
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Default Re: Bitterroot and the effect of too warm water on Cutthroat

The one 'good thing' we have going on in the Rogue is at RM 157 we have a huge dam (Wm. Jess) witch (pun intended) is a good and bad thing. The one thing that's good is there's a 'zillion gallons' of water behind same.

River flow comes out from the bottom so water temp's can be as low as 42 degrees, 52 is average. But there are several flow gauges on the river that also report water temps. They ago above a given level and water will just be poured out of that dam to cool the river.

Screws up fly fishing, but good for the fish. For context it gets damned hot here in the Summer.
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Old 11-17-2013, 04:21 PM
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Default Re: Bitterroot and the effect of too warm water on Cutthroat

It doesn't matter where you are there are answers for & against as I know over here there were quite a few Well Paid Government Consultants & if they would have told the real truth they would have been out of a Job.
On the other hand Man has done heaps which has helped create The Situations we are now Facing.
The way I see it we had better start to do something very quickly regardless of whose right or wrong any politics people believe are involved,granted people will jump up & down & complain about losing Money etc etc etc however my thoughts are "A Short Term Hardship will Result in a Long Term Gain".
Brian.
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Old 11-17-2013, 04:25 PM
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Default Re: Bitterroot and the effect of too warm water on Cutthroat

Nice article. Thanks for posting it. We can't do anything much locally about how much snow and rain we get or how hot the sun shines . No matter what all the causes are, there are somethings that we can do or help with.

Number one is to spread the word about not stressing the fish when the water temps are up. Some other things we can do is to work with farmers on fencing and getting streams re-vegetated with both grasses and shading folage. Also working with the dams and irrigation managers on timing of minimum water flows and improved irrigation practices that leave more water in the stream. Even projects that return meanders to a stream help as some of that water flows under the meander and returns to the stream lower down cooled from the ground flow.

Talk to your local Fisheries Managers. I am sure they know were the biggest problems are and where some volunteers can help.
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Old 11-17-2013, 04:35 PM
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Default Re: Bitterroot and the effect of too warm water on Cutthroat

Politics is based on personal beliefs. Politicians and their followers (me included) make decisions, take action and support ideas to in attempt to advance those beliefs/ideals. Science is based on observation, data, models and tests. It has no ulterior motive or ambition beyond theory and proving it.

The science of climate change is not a political issue. Rather I should say, should not be a political issue. It is science. And at this point it nearly universally accepted. Politicians and talking heads politicize the issue.

And that is sad because it only impedes action. Maybe the planet is going through a natural warming trend but we also know that burning coal and other fossil fuels accelerates the warming process. Conserving water and restoring habitat are also necessary, but unfortunately it is not enough. The wait and see solution is not a solution.

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Old 11-17-2013, 04:45 PM
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Default Re: Bitterroot and the effect of too warm water on Cutthroat

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Originally Posted by cpiercem View Post
Nice article. Thanks for posting it. We can't do anything much locally about how much snow and rain we get or how hot the sun shines . No matter what all the causes are, there are somethings that we can do or help with.

Number one is to spread the word about not stressing the fish when the water temps are up. Some other things we can do is to work with farmers on fencing and getting streams re-vegetated with both grasses and shading folage. Also working with the dams and irrigation managers on timing of minimum water flows and improved irrigation practices that leave more water in the stream. Even projects that return meanders to a stream help as some of that water flows under the meander and returns to the stream lower down cooled from the ground flow.

Talk to your local Fisheries Managers. I am sure they know were the biggest problems are and where some volunteers can help.
Best reply on this subject and couldn't agree more. Leave your politics out of this and focus on what can be done streamside to help our fisheries. I am sure there is a lot of good experience amongst the members that can be shared with the rest of us on what can be done in our own backyard to help the fish.


Rep points coming your way...

Dave
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Old 11-17-2013, 04:58 PM
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Default Re: Bitterroot and the effect of too warm water on Cutthroat

Dean you are correct where I live & the Lake I fish from I can see 2 Power Stations one of which pumps water from the Lake also there are only 3 or 4 Coal mines here now as years ago there were at least 10 they say they are spending Money on Clean Coal Burning however any one can see The Smoke going into The Air with it heaps of Pollutants which don't help The Cause.
The Good Thing The Government gave people all over Australia grants to install Solar Panels & it looks like 1 of The Power Stations could close as The Local Operators can't sell their power as cheap as The Coastal Power Stations as they have only recently been Privatised.
Another thing The Power over the last 5 years has increased by 69% & lots of people couldn't afford to use it.
I spent nearly 30 years in The Coal Mining Industry & heaps of mates spent longer in The Power Generating Industry many still work in The Coal Mines as that's mainly was The employment in our area.
Brian
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Old 11-17-2013, 05:03 PM
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Default Re: Bitterroot and the effect of too warm water on Cutthroat

Intelligent folks should be able to discuss topics such as this in a manner and banter that we have on most of the threads on here.

The way we run from this type of conversation is part of the problem not the solution.

I enjoy hearing the other side of any issue. I respect people who can relay their views and opinions and why meaningfully and cordially, simply because I also evolve in my beliefs. When I find a group of gentleman from many walks and locations that I respect it helps me better understand issues from a more educated perspective.

It is easy to allow the other person their viewpoints and respect that, there is no need at all for things to go south. We lose a lot of valuable resource this way.

I ain't saying it's easy... but it sure is worth the effort to those of us who really want to know what makes things go around.
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