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-   -   Bimini knot (http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/forums/saltwater-fly-fishing/156296-bimini-knot.html)

riekky 07-02-2011 04:06 AM

Bimini knot
 
Hi there,

I was wondering if a bimini knot is really necessary in a tarpon leader. Now a days I see a lot of leader formula without a bimini knot.

Do you all uses bimini knot in your tarpon leaders for tarpon smaller than 125 lbs?

Riekky

wjc 07-02-2011 07:09 AM

Re: Bimini knot
 
I use straight 60 # fluoro from the fly line to the fly, so I don't use any knots. If I were still using a 12, 16 or 20 lb. class tippet, I would definitely use a bimini.

There is no way to pick what size fish will bite when I am tarpon fishing.

PS: I will add that if I were fishing for baby tarpon to 40 lbs or so, I would use tapered leaders without a bite tippet. The smaller flies will not track properly with a bite tippet, and it isn't needed. The "bite tippet" is for abrasion resistance, not teeth, when tarpon fishing. Smaller fish are not on the line long enough to worry about abrasion, and most that are caught are either hooked in the corner of the mouth or in "the button" anyhow (two areas of meat in the upper jaw just to the left and right of dead center).


Cheers,
Jim

gatortransplant 07-03-2011 10:29 AM

Re: Bimini knot
 
I can only really weigh in on this from a spinning perspective, and I don't know how similar tarpon leaders for fly fishing are compared to those on spinning and baitcasting outfits, but in the latter the bimini twist is typically more desirable than the alternative spider hitch. The spider hitch might be cool looking and easier to tie but it doesn't test nearly as well as the bimini.

Guest1 07-03-2011 12:23 PM

Re: Bimini knot
 
I use the Bimini twist alot with large bite tippets and smaller test leaders. It gives a shock absorber type effect when you clip the loop in half and furl it loosely before tying it to the bite tippet. The biggest bite/test tippet difference I remember doing is a 30 lb. bite and 8 lb. test. tippets. It wasn't for Tarpon, but the shock absorber aspect of it may be something you may want to think about.

riekky 07-04-2011 02:54 AM

Re: Bimini knot
 
Hi,

I have difficulty to tie the bimini twist. When I'm done tying, one part of the loop is curled. Probaly I use to much pressure.

Do you all tie the bimini twist on both side of the class tippet?

I've looked at the pics on the side of the guide and the tarpons are way smaller then 125 lbs. The biggest tarpon on the pics are probaly 40 lbs.

Is a bimini still necessary?

Riekky

wjc 07-04-2011 08:16 AM

Re: Bimini knot
 
Riekky,

I would not use either a bimini or a bite tippet for tarpon that size. Schoolie tarpon and the big ones we have in the keys during the migration do not hang out together.

The ones I fish for during the migration run 80 lbs at the smallest up to huge, so you do not know what size fish will bite, only that it will be bigger than 80 lbs. Even 80 lb fish take a while to get in, so you really need a bite tippet for them too.

After the migration is over, the Schoolies are caught around bridges in the Keys, and in the Everglades rivers, lakes inlets and so on. Gurglers are very popular flies in the Everglades for small tarpon, and they do not track properly with bite tippets. No small flies will track properly with thick bite tippets.

For a bimini to work, it has to be on both ends of the class tippet. The class tippet is the weakest part of the line by a bunch, from the fly all the way to the arbor knot on the reel spool.

The Bimini is the strongest knot to make a loop with. So you make two Bimini loops, and use the doubled ends to tie knots to the stronger lines (the leader Butt and Bite tippet). That way, those knots tied with doubled ends of the weak line will not break. The heavier lines will not break either. So the line will break somewhere along the class tippet.

Quote:

When I'm done tying, one part of the loop is curled. Probaly I use to much pressure.
If you are pre-rigging flies for loop to loop connections, the end with the loop should be twisted before tying that doubled section into a doubled loop with a surgeon's knot. This makes the loop managable, keeps both strands of the loop the same size, and provides the shock-absorber Diver Dan was talking about. The length of the double twisted line and the quadruple twisted line is up to you.

The other end doesn't matter because it will be going through either an overhand or partially closed surgeon's (looks like a figure 8) "stop knot" in the bit tippet. On the other side of the stop knot, I tie 4 overhand knots around the bite tippet, then finish off with a Huffnagel.

But, again, unless you are going for a class record, I wouldn't bother with all that.

If you do not understand what I'm talking about I could make a short video for you.

Cheers,
Jim

riekky 07-05-2011 04:48 AM

Re: Bimini knot
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wjc (Post 281367)
Riekky,

The other end doesn't matter because it will be going through either an overhand or partially closed surgeon's (looks like a figure 8) "stop knot" in the bit tippet. On the other side of the stop knot, I tie 4 overhand knots around the bite tippet, then finish off with a Huffnagel.

If you do not understand what I'm talking about I could make a short video for you.

Cheers,
Jim

Jim,

Thanks for the explanation but here is were I get lost.

And Im NOT going for a class record but I want to use a class tippet because Im a novice and we dont have big fish like tarpon in Holland. I just want to make sure that the class tippet is my weakest link and not my fly line or backing.

Riekky

Guest1 07-12-2011 06:48 PM

Re: Bimini knot
 
First off if you are going for a line class record, use a line that you know will break at the desired point. I use ANDE mono for that. Next only use knots that are 100% line strength knots. Blood knots for putting the sections of your leader together and a trilene knot for tying the fly on. The only knot I use that isn't 100% line strength is the perfection loop at the line end of the leader. But because you are at the fat end it does not have to be because it will still take more to break than your class tippet. I do use a bimini twist sometimes, but only when I have toothy fish I'm going for or I am just tired of loosing flies to the stray ones I come across. Are you going for a toothy species? If so I can make a detailed diagram of how to do it and still have your leader break at the desired point. I have used this leader on a couple of line class records and they broke where they were supposed to so I know it works.

OK I just looked back through the posts, and it looks like you are going for a Tarpon. What record are you looking at breaking?

swirlchaser 07-13-2011 04:18 PM

Re: Bimini knot
 
I just use them because they're pretty cool to tie. :D

chuck s 07-18-2011 07:03 PM

Re: Bimini knot
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by riekky (Post 280261)
Hi there,

I was wondering if a bimini knot is really necessary in a tarpon leader. Now a days I see a lot of leader formula without a bimini knot.

Do you all uses bimini knot in your tarpon leaders for tarpon smaller than 125 lbs?

Riekky

No it is not necessary, unless you wish get 100% out of class tippet material. It also is not necessary unless you prefer no shock absorbtion. On the other hand it is a good thing to use a tippet rated less than your fly line core or backing lb test as this will break rather than losing your line and backing. Most heavier line cores range from 25-30 lb test so using a class tippet of 22 lb test is probably a very good thing. Adding another restriction, mobility, it's likely best to consider whether you are mobile as in fishing from a boat, kayak, etc or wading as this allows you to follow the fish and take strain off your outfit. Personally I use a class tippet for all Tarpon Leaders for these reasons.

---------- Post added at 06:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:35 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by riekky (Post 280261)
Hi there,

I was wondering if a bimini knot is really necessary in a tarpon leader. Now a days I see a lot of leader formula without a bimini knot.

Do you all uses bimini knot in your tarpon leaders for tarpon smaller than 125 lbs?

Riekky

No it is not necessary, unless you wish get 100% out of class tippet material. :rolleyes: It also is not necessary unless you prefer no shock absorbtion. :confused: On the other hand it is a good thing to use a tippet rated less than your fly line core or backing lb test as this will break rather than losing your line and backing. :icon_razz Most heavier line cores range from 25-30 lb test so using a class tippet of 22 lb test is probably a very good thing. Adding another restriction, mobility, it's likely best to consider whether you are mobile as in fishing from a boat, kayak, etc or wading as this allows you to follow the fish and take strain off your outfit. Personally I use a class tippet for all Tarpon Leaders for all these reasons, plus turnover.


Many years back when the world was flat and brook trout were the size of Great White Sharks, Hell I was there, to paraphrase a couple of famous gun writers. :D The "there," in this case was the old, and one of the earliest forums, the Fly Fishing Review Forum where I hung with interesting characters such as Bill Nash, Colston Newton, Carlos Heinsohn and others. Bill especially had a technical bent and went on to self publish a great book on tying knots and more which you can order from him last I heard. On knots he and I both were using a combination of knot against knot, against the scale and in that forum would argue the results of our latest rounds of testing. Here's a list of knots and what you can expect that came from his research there and elsehwere and published in his book::bowdown:


Blood - 60-80% (hard nylon strongest)
Doubled 8 - 100% (2x & smaller)
Surgeons - 85% (3-turn)
Surgeons - 100% (4-turn)
Surgeons Loop - 85% (2 turn)
Surgeons Loop - 95% (3 turn)
Nail Knot - 70%
Sheet Bend - 75%
Non-Slip Mono Loop - 95%+
Perfection Loop - 95%
Duncan - 95% + (with 7 turns)
Becker - 95% + (8x to 0/4x)
Trilene - 95% +
Albright - 75%
Bimini - 100% even after repeated stress

Now your results may differ but if tied correctly then pulled tight with lube, your set of figures may differ slightly but will mirror these in order of strongest to weakest, or I miss my bet. By the way FC is different from Mono which varies from braid considerably. A good tip is to use lip balm, with an SPF factor to lube the knots with as saliva can range from slick to dry.:cool:


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