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Saltwater Fly Fishing Bonefish, Tarpon, Redfish, Permit, False Albacore, Striped Bass, etc...

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2011, 01:49 PM
wjc wjc is offline
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Default Re: Big Tuna help

Quote:
I have always fed the mono up into the spectra much further than you are noting in order to get 100% strength at the connection.
Jamie,

You misread my post. I never mentioned how far I run fluoro up into the spectra. OK, I see what caused the confusion on a re-reading of my post. I wrote it wrong. Sorry.

I'll start again. I....

1). Sandpaper the end of the fluoro to a blunt point. Spectra fibers going over a square edge is not good.

2) I shove the fluoro up into the braid about 2 feet for leader butts

3). I scuff an area of the mono about 1 1/2" long at that 2 foot mark before running the spectra any further up.

4) I make my glue bump as previously described and let it dry.

5) I run the fluro futher in so the spectra goes over the bump and past it.

6) I tie a nail knot over the spectra and glue with JB adhesive.

The purpose of the tapered glue bump is to prevent the serve from slipping on the fluoro when casting. Because when casting, the spectra(or any hollow braid) is alternately loose then tight, and the weight of large hooks it putting very short lived, but relatively large forces on the serve.

The bump not only prevents the serve mechanically from slipping down the fluoro, but also takes most of the force in compression before the force even reaches the serve.

I'm going back to change the wording of that first post, because it is exactly wrong!

PS Edit: All my current butt leaders have double squeeze Guidbrode hollow mono or braided dacron direct connections to the leader butts. I do not have any spectra that will open wide enough to accept the front end of the fly line. They are two part, with dacron (served each end) under 50 lb. Gudebrood which overlaps the serves on the dacron.

Butt leader end
Click the image to open in full size.

Fly line end:
Click the image to open in full size.
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Last edited by wjc; 11-10-2011 at 03:30 PM.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2011, 10:30 PM
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Default Re: Big Tuna help

Thank you Jim,

Excellent. I will also be experimenting with hollow spectra over the fly line to also create a knotless connection. You would be surprised to see how big a line you can get inside the proper size hollow spectra. I have lots to learn and discover.

Jamie

Jamie

Quote:
Originally Posted by wjc View Post
Jamie,

You misread my post. I never mentioned how far I run fluoro up into the spectra. OK, I see what caused the confusion on a re-reading of my post. I wrote it wrong. Sorry.

I'll start again. I....

1). Sandpaper the end of the fluoro to a blunt point. Spectra fibers going over a square edge is not good.

2) I shove the fluoro up into the braid about 2 feet for leader butts

3). I scuff an area of the mono about 1 1/2" long at that 2 foot mark before running the spectra any further up.

4) I make my glue bump as previously described and let it dry.

5) I run the fluro futher in so the spectra goes over the bump and past it.

6) I tie a nail knot over the spectra and glue with JB adhesive.

The purpose of the tapered glue bump is to prevent the serve from slipping on the fluoro when casting. Because when casting, the spectra(or any hollow braid) is alternately loose then tight, and the weight of large hooks it putting very short lived, but relatively large forces on the serve.

The bump not only prevents the serve mechanically from slipping down the fluoro, but also takes most of the force in compression before the force even reaches the serve.

I'm going back to change the wording of that first post, because it is exactly wrong!

PS Edit: All my current butt leaders have double squeeze Guidbrode hollow mono or braided dacron direct connections to the leader butts. I do not have any spectra that will open wide enough to accept the front end of the fly line. They are two part, with dacron (served each end) under 50 lb. Gudebrood which overlaps the serves on the dacron.

Butt leader end
Click the image to open in full size.

Fly line end:
Click the image to open in full size.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2011, 01:01 PM
wjc wjc is offline
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Default Re: Big Tuna help

Jamie,

One thing to remember is to make sure you get white in JB or uncolored line in any other brand that has it. Spectra cannot be dyed, so they basically paint it. It can be spliced, but it is a major pain. I wound up washing some yellow I had with Dawn detergent to make it easier to splice. The color comes right out with Dawn.

I may not use spectra at all for the butt leaders because the Gudebroode 50 lb hollow mono over dacron braid makes for a very smooth turnover without hinging even with 5/0 flies. The reason for the dacron under it is because it grabs the fluoro much better than 50 lb Gudebroode alone and also increases the diameter so the 50 lb can then grab on it too.

I've been trying to get ahold of my JB dealer (who's also a sportsfisher captain out of Lighthouse Point, FL) to get another 600 yds of 65 lb JB and 80 lb JB. But we've been playing phone tag.

Good luck with your quest. My buddy who is a retired guide and sportsfisher captain taught me about splices, top shots, windons, teasing billfish, rigging split-tail mullet teasers etc. etc. He's also the one who gave me the mega-rod that one of his clients (who was after a fly rod record bluefin) gave him. It's a whole different world from flats fishing.

PS: On the backing end, it is nice to have a number of different sizes of spectra to up-splice with for either direct connections to the fly line or loops that won't cut into the braided loop on the end of the running line. There, spectra is much better than hollow mono braid.

Cheers,
Jim
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Last edited by wjc; 11-11-2011 at 01:07 PM. Reason: PS
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2011, 07:58 PM
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Default Re: Big Tuna help

Hi Jim,

Yup, I have used about 10,000 Yds of J.B. Spectra since 2003/2004 and other than replacing some seagull pecked, boat rashed or other frayed/rubbed sections the J.B. holds up amazing. With the Hollow I just cut out the bad and splice in the new. Piece of cake and 100% strength.
I also agree as far as splicing up from 60 pound J.B. Hollow to something bigger. I usually end up with 80 or 130 hollow for the last short bit as it makes for a better loop to loop connection but for fly fishing I am not too worried about it only because I am assuming the hollow spectra going over the fly line will be in the 130 - 300 pound range of J.B. but I am not certain yet as it will be dependent on what fly line I go with. Right now the Rio Leviathan and the previously mentioned S.A. lines are looking good but there does not appear to be anything wrong with the better priced Teeny line as well. Because I will be using both a floating line as well as a sinking line it will be interesting to see what happens. I will just figure it out as I go.

As far as grab-ability for me I find the J.B. Spectra much better than any hollow Dacron for grabbing mono or flouro but that is just my opinion though out here most of us stopped using Dacron about 8 years ago on our bigger conventional gear. Many of the competitors braided products have a waxy feel to them or are coated with something making them very poor candidates for knotless connections. Additionally it is super important to use the appropriate glue and conditioner to make sure there is a proper bond through the serving material as well as the bond between the mono and the Spectra.

Anyway, please keep up the input.

Jamie

Quote:
Originally Posted by wjc View Post
Jamie,

One thing to remember is to make sure you get white in JB or uncolored line in any other brand that has it. Spectra cannot be dyed, so they basically paint it. It can be spliced, but it is a major pain. I wound up washing some yellow I had with Dawn detergent to make it easier to splice. The color comes right out with Dawn.

I may not use spectra at all for the butt leaders because the Gudebroode 50 lb hollow mono over dacron braid makes for a very smooth turnover without hinging even with 5/0 flies. The reason for the dacron under it is because it grabs the fluoro much better than 50 lb Gudebroode alone and also increases the diameter so the 50 lb can then grab on it too.

I've been trying to get ahold of my JB dealer (who's also a sportsfisher captain out of Lighthouse Point, FL) to get another 600 yds of 65 lb JB and 80 lb JB. But we've been playing phone tag.

Good luck with your quest. My buddy who is a retired guide and sportsfisher captain taught me about splices, top shots, windons, teasing billfish, rigging split-tail mullet teasers etc. etc. He's also the one who gave me the mega-rod that one of his clients (who was after a fly rod record bluefin) gave him. It's a whole different world from flats fishing.

PS: On the backing end, it is nice to have a number of different sizes of spectra to up-splice with for either direct connections to the fly line or loops that won't cut into the braided loop on the end of the running line. There, spectra is much better than hollow mono braid.

Cheers,
Jim
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Old 11-12-2011, 02:04 AM
wjc wjc is offline
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Default Re: Big Tuna help

Jamie,

It seems to me that you have more than enough experience with the connections and such.

I don't know what fly line you are intending to use, but I have some unused running line I cut off a Rio 550 gr. tropical floating levethian line for you to play with if you want. It is the blue 30' head with green solid core running line.

I quickly read the "Hollow connection" link but didn't look at all the pictures. One thing I noticed is that the author recommended sanding the fly line the full length that is stuffed into the hollow spectra.

I would hesitate to do this on fly line. If you look at any fly line with a loupe, you will see that its surface is anything but smooth. In fact, it looks like a lacquer job with very regular orange peel that would have to be knocked down with fine paper before the final coat. It is very regularly bumpy surface, like it's been sprayed on. It's also soft and a very good surface for the squeeze. The green sticks to the coating well, but can be removed pretty easily after soaking in acetone - which does not affect the surface of the core beneath.

I have only been running my fly line up into braided mono loops about a foot and have been more than comfortable with that on tarpon to about 135 lbs. but I've never caught any big tuna on anything.

It's the connection to the fluoro that I'd be worried about. My buddy runs his mono top shots way up into braid - 8 or 10 feet it feels like- on his conventional gear. Whether that's necessary or not, who knows. But that's why I added the glue bump on my leader butts.

Cheers,
Jim
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Old 11-12-2011, 04:09 AM
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Default Re: Big Tuna help

Hi Jim,

Guys like Basil and myself have tested the heck out of these things. In my case I own an Aerospace manufacturing firm so I used some pretty great tools to prove out my theories. 3 - 4 feet of insertion and a proper glue and serve and you will see 100% strength. At least that is what works for mono or flouro. As you note my concern is regarding a non rigid outer section of fly line and how it will collapse or contain the pulled down serve.
over the hollow to fly line insertion. I too am not certain about the need to rough sand the fly line but I will test and find out. Thank you for the offer of the section of fly line but I think I have enough to play with... I think.

Jamie

Quote:
Originally Posted by wjc View Post
Jamie,

It seems to me that you have more than enough experience with the connections and such.

I don't know what fly line you are intending to use, but I have some unused running line I cut off a Rio 550 gr. tropical floating levethian line for you to play with if you want. It is the blue 30' head with green solid core running line.

I quickly read the "Hollow connection" link but didn't look at all the pictures. One thing I noticed is that the author recommended sanding the fly line the full length that is stuffed into the hollow spectra.

I would hesitate to do this on fly line. If you look at any fly line with a loupe, you will see that its surface is anything but smooth. In fact, it looks like a lacquer job with very regular orange peel that would have to be knocked down with fine paper before the final coat. It is very regularly bumpy surface, like it's been sprayed on. It's also soft and a very good surface for the squeeze. The green sticks to the coating well, but can be removed pretty easily after soaking in acetone - which does not affect the surface of the core beneath.

I have only been running my fly line up into braided mono loops about a foot and have been more than comfortable with that on tarpon to about 135 lbs. but I've never caught any big tuna on anything.

It's the connection to the fluoro that I'd be worried about. My buddy runs his mono top shots way up into braid - 8 or 10 feet it feels like- on his conventional gear. Whether that's necessary or not, who knows. But that's why I added the glue bump on my leader butts.

Cheers,
Jim
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2011, 10:13 AM
wjc wjc is offline
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Default Re: Big Tuna help

Super, Jamie. If you do any equipment or line testing, make sure you let us know your findings.

And good luck on the tuna!

Cheers,
Jim
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