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Old 03-16-2013, 04:00 AM
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Default Re: 9' 8-weight versus 11' 8-weight (switch)?

When I went out and bought one Rod I thought the best comprimise of lenghth and power for steelhead, smallmouth, largemouth, Cali delta stripers <-(They dont get as large as you east coast guys) I personally thought I'd like a longer rod but I didnt want to get into spey/switch. I went with a 10ft 7 weight and for everything I've done with its its awesome and works really really well with a lot of different things.
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Old 03-16-2013, 05:54 AM
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Default Re: 9' 8-weight versus 11' 8-weight (switch)?

Quote:
No it won't, the longer rod actually gives the fish more leverage on your hand/wrist. Your hand/wrist is the fulcrum and the tip of the rod is the end of he lever in which the pressure is applied to. To make it easy to picture, imagine using a short wrench, the nut is your hand/wrist(the fulcrum or fixed position the lever/wrench is attached to) and your hand, applying pressure on the wrench is the fish. A shorter wrench gives the tight nut/bolt an advantage and a longer whench will give you(the fish) the upper hand. Ths is why you don't see big game fishermen using long rods(gear or fly), and if you look at most 12+ weight rods you will see alot of them are 8'
I've read this before and to me it makes no sense.

How can a longer rod (lever) provide less leverage to the fisherman?

By logical extension, shouldn't that mean that using the shortest rod possible would be the best lever? Or is the cut-off for max leverage exactly 9 feet?

This probably sounds like I'm griping, but I'm honestly interested in knowing -- that's all. And even one of my fly fishing books mentions this same thing, so it's not just from here that I've heard it.

My assumption was that off-shore fishermen probably used medium length rods only because huge long ones would be more likely to get caught up on things in the boat and be cumbersome to manipulate.

That said, I'm leaning toward a 9' 8 weight.
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Old 03-16-2013, 08:15 AM
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Default Re: 9' 8-weight versus 11' 8-weight (switch)?

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Originally Posted by turbineblade View Post
I've read this before and to me it makes no sense.

How can a longer rod (lever) provide less leverage to the fisherman?

By logical extension, shouldn't that mean that using the shortest rod possible would be the best lever? Or is the cut-off for max leverage exactly 9 feet?

This probably sounds like I'm griping, but I'm honestly interested in knowing -- that's all. And even one of my fly fishing books mentions this same thing, so it's not just from here that I've heard it.

My assumption was that off-shore fishermen probably used medium length rods only because huge long ones would be more likely to get caught up on things in the boat and be cumbersome to manipulate.

That said, I'm leaning toward a 9' 8 weight.

It makes perfect sense because it's simple physics, no made up bs it's just the way things work and neither you or I can do a thing to change it. The lever provides pressure on the fulcrum(the axis or fixed position in which the lever is attached to), when fishing your hand is holding the rod handle so in turn your hand is the fulcrum. So this being said the fish is attached to the end of the lever on which the pressure is being applied. Which in turn is applying the pressure to the fulcrum, or your hand in this case. The longer th lever or rod the more pressure it will apply to the fulcrum

Being on a boat or not has nothing to do with rod length, a lot of us only fish from a boat and my preferred fly rod length is 9'. In reality the shorter heavy weight rods will get a fish in faster but the longer rods are easier to cast. So basically a long rod is a better casting tool and the shorter rod is a better fish fighting tool. I know for a fact it works this way from my gear fishing days. With fly fishing, especially heavier lines it has already been established industry wide that a 9' rod has a good balance of fish fighting and casting ability.

That said, I agree a 9' 8wt would be the best combo of fighting ability combined with cast ability.
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Old 03-16-2013, 08:39 AM
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Default Re: 9' 8-weight versus 11' 8-weight (switch)?

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Originally Posted by axle27 View Post
I'm sure Pocono will show up soon and give his sage advice, but here's my opinion (what little it is really worth):

An 11ft switch will get you above the surf and help you cast a bit better. However, an 8wt switch is more like a 10wt when it comes to line. I dabbled in the switch rods for a bit and found some interesting information. The weight on the lines to load a switch rod is much more than your standard weights. YOu can use both hands to overhead cast, but it's still not something you'll be slinging around all day like a 5-weight.

If you don't plan on hunting in the surf, look at a 9ft. The 8wt should do all you want with everything you've listed.

Correct above on 2handers vs 1hander rods/lines. Line weights are (on average) at least two up in grain weight from a 1hander. As an example I have a 3/4/5 (Meizer build) and the grain range on that is 250 (light 3) to 400 for a heavy 5wt. (I have the rod lined with a 280 for a 'perfect' 3 and 328 for an almost 'perfect' 4.)

But another thought on rod length: A 10' fast action rod like the Sage XP. One of the best 'short speys' going. And with the up-locking reel seat you've got plenty of room for two/three fingers under the reel for casting.
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Old 03-16-2013, 09:02 AM
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Default Re: 9' 8-weight versus 11' 8-weight (switch)?

Okay, so beyond the physics of casting -- why not eliminate the rod entirely and just fight the fish using the handle and reel?

To me it sounds like this would provide maximum leverage but no "buffer" to the line to protect it from breakage. Maybe "leverage" then is a bad term to use, and "buffering" is better? Sure a longer rod provides more of a "buffer" against line breakage?

I don't know.
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Old 03-16-2013, 11:54 AM
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Thumbs up Re: 9' 8-weight versus 11' 8-weight (switch)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbineblade View Post
Okay, so beyond the physics of casting -- why not eliminate the rod entirely and just fight the fish using the handle and reel?

To me it sounds like this would provide maximum leverage but no "buffer" to the line to protect it from breakage. Maybe "leverage" then is a bad term to use, and "buffering" is better? Sure a longer rod provides more of a "buffer" against line breakage?

I don't know.
I like this choice of 'word.' Leader or line, that's what the rod is 'buffering.'

I like this, I really do ... total different view.

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Old 03-16-2013, 03:57 PM
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Default Re: 9' 8-weight versus 11' 8-weight (switch)?

Your exactly right, a longer rod will add more protection or buffer for the leader/tipper. But in my original post I was just trying to clarify the fact a longer rod provides no extra leverage. Ability to protect a tippet and leverage are two completely different aspects of a rod, and you would be buying a different rod for different situations if you wanted the best of either.... Right.
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Old 03-16-2013, 04:14 PM
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Talking Re: 9' 8-weight versus 11' 8-weight (switch)?

End game: A longer rod will NOT provide more 'leverage.' Well, a massive rod weight may.
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Old 03-25-2013, 03:50 PM
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Default Re: 9' 8-weight versus 11' 8-weight (switch)?

With a two handed rod, you can move the upper hand (fulcrum) to the top end of the cork and leave your bottom hand at the end of the butt. The longer that distance it, the more leverage you have against the fish.
If you just hold the rod with one hand, the fulcrum is the forward end of your hand, and the force is applied at the back of your hand, a distance if ony a few inches.
The mechanical advantage is the proportional to the ratio of distances, less than 1 in both cases, but far higher for a two handed rod.
I am assuming you are not reeling, but using the drag on your reel.
The most advantage would be if you dropped the rod and pulled the fish in hand over hand.
Tie a small weight in a line that extends about 3 ft from the tip of a rod and move your hand or hands to check on the easiest way to pick it up.
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Old 03-26-2013, 02:40 PM
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Default Re: 9' 8-weight versus 11' 8-weight (switch)?

Many years ago there was an article in one of the monthy outdoor sports rags about a fella that fished below a couple of TVA dams for huge catfish. He fished out of a boat and used like 5# sinkers and large hunks of 'aged' meat for bait. His rod of choice was a large casting type reel attached to a rod that was about a foot long with only a tiptop attached. He basicly did just reel in his catch with only the reel. The rod was only a convienent means of holding the reel. He fished out of a small johnboat and some of the cats he caught he had to just lash onto the side of the boat because they would not fit in his boat. He used the rod stub because it was more effecient than a longer rod.
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