Need help for choosing first saltwatet fly combo

[jdavid71]

Im new at fly fishing and i want a saltwater fly rod because i fish mostly saltwater. Im looking at 4 fly rod and reel combos. Tell me what you guys think and if you have any other suggestions i will gladly hear the out.

Orvis encounter combo: m.orvis.com/p/encounter-8-weight-9-fly-rod-outfit/8p45

Cabelas rls fly combo: Cabela's RLS+ Fly Combo : Cabela's

Ll bean streamlight ultra: m.llbean.com/product.html#70536

Cabelas theee fork/ prestige premier fly combo: www.cabelas.com/product/Cabelas-Three-Fo...6recordsPerPage=18

 

[coastrider]

Go test cast first or you will never know

 

[jdavid71]

Go test cast first or you will never know

I cant try all

 

[retreive]

I ended up with several cheap rods only because I was impatient and did not try anything I bought.
Dont make the same mistake. It costs money.

 

[pjcalla]

Allen Fly Fishing (site sponsor) has, as their "deal of the week", a store credit ($50, iirc) when you buy an 8 weight rod, which you could put toward an Alpha or Kraken reel.

Or, you could buy a TFO BVK for ~$200 and Allen Alpha reel for $160 and be good. I think there's an Alpha in the classifieds right now.

 

[wicked_fly]

Allen Fly Fishing (site sponsor) has, as their "deal of the week", a store credit ($50, iirc) when you buy an 8 weight rod, which you could put toward an Alpha or Kraken reel.

Or, you could buy a TFO BVK for ~$200 and Allen Alpha reel for $160 and be good. I think there's an Alpha in the classifieds right now.

I agree with this post, great suggestions both are great products that you should be happy with for a starter outfit and you won't be ashamed of them to keep as a backup when or if you decide to "upgrade".

 

[crkoester]

Save up a few more bucks and get the 8 weight TFO BVK, pair it with a (discontinued) Sage 1880 reel... or a Lamson Konic. (Or a Lamson Guru if you can swing it).

This is all gear on the low end of premium... otherwise known as the "best bang for your buck" category.

 

[labradorguy]

St. Croix rods dominate the "Best Bang for the Buck" category.

8wt BVKs have a poor track record for durability; many have had them break with fish on.

 

[crkoester]

I know you have a bone to pick with the TFO BVK's, but I do happen to own one that I just put through the paces for a week in Alaska. I was landing numbers of 8-10 pound sockeye every single day in heavy river current, with a good number of them foul-hooked and completely uncontrollable, but on 20 pound tippet that was almost impossible to break. The rod took such a vicious pounding I was honestly shocked at times it didn't explode. I was putting so much stress on this rod at times that if it had broken I would have considered it due to abuse rather than a failure of the rod.... but it never let me down. I promise that if this rod were prone to break, it would have absolutely, positively broken.

But if it did, TFO has just about the best warranty in the business. And the thing retails for $250, compared to the $850 Loomis NRX 9 weight I'm about to buy. I could bust 3 of them in a row and throw them in the river and I'd still be money ahead. And let's remember that the OP was first referring to some rods that are decidedly at the less-than-premium level.

As a side note, the only rod I broke on my Alaska trip was a St. Croix Legend Elite.

Just saying.

FWIW, I do agree with you about St. Croix. I own 3 St. Croix fly rods (and probably 8-10 other St Croix spinning and baitcasting rods) and love them all; my first fly rod was a 5 weight Legend Elite that I loved with all my heart (it was stolen, I could have cried). I consider the St. Croix Imperial line to probably the VERY best "bang for your buck" line of rods made. I just bought a 6 weight for my beginner buddy that I'm trying to rope into fly fishing. However, the TFO BVK 8 weight gets really exceptional reviews that seem to merit special consideration. That's why I bought one for myself.


Chris

 

[labradorguy]

I thought we were talking about a rod for a beginner? I was just going off of past experience them, not picking any bones. I certainly didn't mean to offend loyal owners.

A person with a lot of salt experience, or someone like yourself who is catching big fish, would probably do fine with them, but newbies tend to get a huge adrenaline rush with big fish, especially fish that strike right at the boat, and that often times results in grabbing the blank in their hand and/or high sticking the rod with the fish near the boat. For someone who is prone to do that, beginner or experienced, I would argue that there are better rods out there for them to consider.

The BVK has a reputation as a rod that performs very well for the money.
The BVK also has a reputation as a rod that experiences a lot of failures.

Not picking bones, just pointing out facts and overall track records. The OP can choose what he feels is the best choice given his circumstances.

 

[crkoester]

I wonder if the BVK's have had some quality control issues or something. If they do have a reputation for breaking as you suggest, it seems like it must be a hit or miss deal. Because if it were some inherent design flaw (brittle material, walls too thin, etc) I feel absolutely certain mine would no longer be intact. I've been fishing my whole life and I've never put that kind of repeated strain on a rod (other than heavy duty conventional saltwater tackle). Sockeye salmon are insane.


Chris

 

[labradorguy]

I wonder if the BVK's have had some quality control issues or something. If they do have a reputation for breaking as you suggest, it seems like it must be a hit or miss deal. Because if it were some inherent design flaw (brittle material, walls too thin, etc) I feel absolutely certain mine would no longer be intact. I've been fishing my whole life and I've never put that kind of repeated strain on a rod (other than heavy duty conventional saltwater tackle). Sockeye salmon are insane.


Chris

If you want my opinion I'll give it, but I can't help but think this is one of those threads where a person is going to get flogged for doing so....

My opinion is that TFO wanted a rod that was light and that would cast well, but they wanted it to sell at a much more accessible price point than where the top tier players sit. Without cutting edge tech, something had to give. We inspected one of the rods that we broke and found the walls to be extremely thin. I suspect that is where they made the equation work.

As you just said yourself, you've been fishing your whole life. You've probably figured out a thing or two about fighting big fish right? Now take a guy who has caught bluegills and an occasional bass on a lake (not the OP, just an example). He goes out on a flat and 15' from the boat a young tarpon or maybe a cuda streaks out of nowhere and hammers his fly. Everyone's first reaction is to rip the rod up and get more leverage by grabbing the blank. Experienced guys want to do it too, but they've learned not to (often the hard way). That is where BVK comes up short and it's why I believe there are better choices out there for a new angler who has not yet had a chance to refine his big fish technique.

As far as the breakage, I'm not the one coming up with this on my own. Besides the two that I saw in person, there are a lot of stories out there on the net or you can call the Andersons from the famous YA Shootouts. They were relaying a story to me a month ago that was very similar to my experience. As I understand it, TFO is aware of the problem and they are addressing it. I've no clue where they are in the process or how a person would be able to differentiate between an older design and a new one. I do suspect however that if they correct that issue there might be a corresponding drop in performance. A person needs to decide for themselves what their priorities are and go with what works best for them.

I've no axe to grind. I love Ford trucks, but I will grumble for two hours about their 6.0L diesels. TFO trout rods are fine. Their line-up is affordable and as you said, their service is great. The salt rods are fine too if you are disciplined. Do I think they are the best choice for a saltwater beginner? No. Do I believe they would make a good rod for someone fishing an extremely remote area? No. It's nothing personal, it's just going off of the evidence at hand.

TFO found their niche and I take them for what they are, but that's just my opinion among many here and one reason why I love this forum. We never run out of things to discuss.

 

[crkoester]

What bothers me the most is the fact that after taking a stand for the strength of this rod, I'm guaranteed by fate to now snap it on the next big fish I put a hook into. I had never heard of breakage problems with this rod previously. And it was in fact the YA 8 weight shootout (as well as other fabulous reviews) that was the biggest deciding factor in going with this rod vs. the Loomis. (I'll usually shell out for the best of the best unless it's just stupid to do so... but if the performance difference is marginal, why pay more than triple the price?)

I agree completely with what you are saying about guys wanting to grab the rod blank. Actually had this conversation with a fishing buddy of mine on the Kenai, when yet another a foul-hooked sockeye headed for the ocean against my already-fatigued grip and how I momentarily even caught myself reaching for the blank, despite knowing much better. I used it as a teaching moment.... how much leverage a fish has against you on a 9 foot rod with a tiny butt and how badly a guy wants to instinctively gain leverage.... and how the surest way to snap a rod is to create a fulcrum with your other hand and take the strongest part of the rod out of the fight and put it all on the skinny end.

Actually had a similar moment on a saltwater trip that same week... a guy was fighting a huge lingcod, which momentarily began to kick his ass and power dive at a sharp angle under the boat. My buddy and I were watching, and I told him if the guy let that rod even touch the gunwale it was going to snap. About 3 seconds later, guess what...


Chris

 

[fq13]

I wil leave the rod discussion to others and talk reels. As fàr as budget reels go Cabelas is selling their prestige premire for 44 bucks. its a large arbor reel with a Lamson drag. I paid eighty odd dollars for mine to use on an eight weight snook rod and I love it for back country fish. I can't say how it would work on permit or blue water fish, but for snook, bass and small tarpon it is outstanding.And at $44 it is a steal. Buy two! For a higher dollar rig I love my Allen Kraken, but there you are looking at a sealed drag reel. It will set you back two bills, but its worth it. Just decide what you need.

 

[labradorguy]

What bothers me the most is the fact that after taking a stand for the strength of this rod, I'm guaranteed by fate to now snap it on the next big fish I put a hook into. I had never heard of breakage problems with this rod previously. And it was in fact the YA 8 weight shootout (as well as other fabulous reviews) that was the biggest deciding factor in going with this rod vs. the Loomis. (I'll usually shell out for the best of the best unless it's just stupid to do so... but if the performance difference is marginal, why pay more than triple the price?)

I agree completely with what you are saying about guys wanting to grab the rod blank. Actually had this conversation with a fishing buddy of mine on the Kenai, when yet another a foul-hooked sockeye headed for the ocean against my already-fatigued grip and how I momentarily even caught myself reaching for the blank, despite knowing much better. I used it as a teaching moment.... how much leverage a fish has against you on a 9 foot rod with a tiny butt and how badly a guy wants to instinctively gain leverage.... and how the surest way to snap a rod is to create a fulcrum with your other hand and take the strongest part of the rod out of the fight and put it all on the skinny end.

Actually had a similar moment on a saltwater trip that same week... a guy was fighting a huge lingcod, which momentarily began to kick his ass and power dive at a sharp angle under the boat. My buddy and I were watching, and I told him if the guy let that rod even touch the gunwale it was going to snap. About 3 seconds later, guess what...


Chris

One of us is screwed, that much is certain.... I've stated before that I believe NRX is by far the best performing, toughest rod ever made for a flats hound. I'm taking it along with me when I leave in a couple days for three weeks in Northern BC. We will be out in the middle of nowhere and it will be a perfect place for fate to make me eat my words...

Everybody does it. I don't know if I've ever let a blank sit on a gunwale, but I constantly reach up like that. It's just a reflex action I suppose.... Your mind is telling you that your favorite rod is about to get ripped out of your hands...lol. Those lings are brutes too. They will make you think that they are pulling everything overboard.

 

[ohbuoy]

I wil leave the rod discussion to others and talk reels. As fàr as budget reels go Cabelas is selling their prestige premire for 44 bucks. its a large arbor reel with a Lamson drag. I paid eighty odd dollars for mine to use on an eight weight snook rod and I love it for back country fish. I can't say how it would work on permit or blue water fish, but for snook, bass and small tarpon it is outstanding.And at $44 it is a steal. Buy two! For a higher dollar rig I love my Allen Kraken, but there you are looking at a sealed drag reel. It will set you back two bills, but its worth it. Just decide what you need.

Is this an in-store only price or do you need a special link for it online? Online, the price shows $89.99.

 

[fq13]

Well rats. It was the bargain cave just last week. Sorry. Still it is a good buy at $89. And it is still on sale. You can get one with a three forks rod for $99. Now those rods are nothing to write home about, but for what amounts to $10 on sale? They will do for a back up or a loaner.

 

[ditz]

I don't believe that there is a graphite rod out there that will withstand high sticking or any other type of abuse. Let's face it, if you get any knick in the blank it rod will likely at some point explode when stressed. If one needs a rod that will withstand a reasonable degree of abuse glass is the way to go and did not notice where anyone recommended a glass rod to this beginner. I have no experience with any of the new glass but the old stuff generally speaking will not generate the line speed that graphite will......But historically there have been a lot of salt water fish caught on glass so..........Glass is Ideal for beginners IMHO.

---------- Post added at 01:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:47 PM ----------

I don't believe that there is a graphite rod out there that will withstand high sticking or any other type of abuse. Let's face it, if you get any knick in the blank it rod will likely at some point explode when stressed. If one needs a rod that will withstand a reasonable degree of abuse glass is the way to go and did not notice where anyone recommended a glass rod to this beginner. I have no experience with any of the new glass but the old stuff generally speaking will not generate the line speed that graphite will......But historically there have been a lot of salt water fish caught on glass so..........Glass is Ideal for beginners IMHO.

For most inshore fish a Okuma SLV at around $55 is more than sufficient. My ancient Pflueger Medalists work just fine. A $20 SA wf floating line would sure do the job for at least a season or two until a beginner knows better what he needs (or wants) A beginner does not need a $500+ rig to catch inshore fish short of tarpon and JT.

 

[Rip Tide]

Not even I will use a glass rod in the salt. They're just too heavy. At least my Orvis Golden Eagle is. I just don't care to do that anymore.
You might be able to find a nice SA System(8,9,10) glass rod for a decent price, but top quality glass saltwater rods, like Winston, are priced out of range.
I did use a Medalist reel in the salt for many many years, but they require daily maintenance so I've gotten away from that also

My buddy has mysteriously broken 2 of the TFO TiCrX 9wts but that doesn't stop him from using one. He loves it.

The saltwater rods that I use are all home-rolled from Pac-Bay and Batson, (plus there's a rebuilt $25 Sportsman's Guide ) but for reasonably priced factory rods, I don't think that you can beat a St Croix

 

[fq13]

Add the Orvis Tip Flex 8 wt to that Rip tide. They are both quality rods for a reasonable price. I like the Clearwater as it comes in 9'6" length and that helps on windy days or with big flies. But won't go wrong either way and both good warranties for when you break it, because everyone who fishes the salt has broken at least one rod.