The North American Fly Fishing Forum


Go Back   The North American Fly Fishing Forum > General Fly Fishing Discussion > Saltwater Fly Fishing

Saltwater Fly Fishing Bonefish, Tarpon, Redfish, Permit, False Albacore, Striped Bass, etc...

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2010, 06:20 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 16
wee hooker is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Favorite "loop" knot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoscaPescador View Post
x2. Best knot I've found for ALL my warm and salt water fishing. It really allows the fly or popper to move freely and has never slipped on me! Much easier to tie with ageing eyes and /or with cold hands too.
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2010, 07:35 PM
wjc wjc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: south florida
Posts: 1,414
wjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant future
Default Re: Favorite "loop" knot?

Nedun,

There were a couple things I don't understand in your last post. Why would you use a Duncan Loop for a loop to loop connection? It's a slip loop. And why would you use a higly visable knot like a bimini right at the fly instead of a stronger shock tippet with a more discrete knot?

Cheers,
Jim
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2010, 10:02 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 13
nedun is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Favorite "loop" knot?

Jim: When you loop your tippet on the leader tip loop the figure eight configuration has enough friction on both legs of the leader loop that it doesn’t slip. If the Duncan loop is set with enough tension it won’t slip except possibly when landing very large fish – then it’s OK to slip and you can be happy that you got such a big one! Regarding the visibility of the knot, we are talking about tying the tippet directly to the fly without a shock (bite) tippet with a knot that may be twice the size of other knots but actually tests 100%.
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2010, 01:13 PM
seajay's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Jacksonville,Florida
Posts: 247
seajay will become famous soon enoughseajay will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Favorite "loop" knot?

nedun, I take it that this is used for Marlin,Sails or Tarpon. If so I would not want the slip knot(Duncan) to move as it will cause friction thus weaken the line.A Bimini at the leader to Tippet as well as a Bimini to Fly line for a loop to loop connection.But all of these connections may make for alot of bulk that may not be needed. At the Fly connection a smaller strong knot such as a Offshore Swivel Knot or Polomar. Just my Nickles worth. I have never Fly Fished for any of the above fish,Yet. WJC has more experience with the larger fish.
For inshore/Flats fishing I use Lefty's no slip just keep the loop as small as possible.
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2010, 03:08 PM
wjc wjc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: south florida
Posts: 1,414
wjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant future
Default Re: Favorite "loop" knot?

Seajay,

Those large fish you mentioned all require a shock tippet or bite tippet. Included in the number that require a bite tippet or wire are snook, mackerel, kingfish, baracuda, permit (most guys), sharks, dolphin.

They aren't used for tensile strength, but abrasion, bite-through or gill cover cutt-offs. In the old days, for tarpon most of us used 100 lb test shock tippets. Even if the fly end loop knot (for those who used them) only tested at 30%, it was still 50% stronger than 20 lb class tippet- and everyone used 16 lb back then for the class tippet.

Bones and redfish are about the only common fly fishing species I fish for, that don't require shock tippets. But a bimini to the hook eye is not a good way to go after bones either in my opinion. A modified slim beauty is what I use on them - 4 turns away and three back down to the hook eye and through the line loop is the fastest, and easiest for me. It can be doubled as well for a little more strength, though I never bother with that.

I would guess that the Lefty Loop is the most common loop knot down here. I use my own variation simply because it is more streamlined, and the tag exits the eye end of the knot. There is not as big a bump on the side as with the Lefty Loop. And I can leave a tag without picking up bay grass with it.

But it is a little more difficult to tie properly than the Lefty Loop.

Cheers,
Jim

Last edited by wjc; 10-17-2010 at 07:52 PM. Reason: Editing in RED
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2010, 03:48 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 13
nedun is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Favorite "loop" knot?

Seajay: I have never had the loop knot from “A Bimini at the leader to Tippet” slip, I have been using this connection for 47 years. As I stated before “ If the Duncan loop is set with enough tension it won’t slip”, the only time I have had a loop slip is in non-flyfishing applications (conventional, plug casting & spinning) when you are grabbing the leader on a heavy fish at the boat. I don’t know where the idea slipping of some loop knots comes from, my opinion is that it is just (talk) from people that don’t understand the physics of knots.
wjc:” everyone used 16 lb back then for the class tippet.“ is not correct, ever since the 1950’s the standard saltwater class tippet was 12 lb., it was only in about the last 15 years that these other line classes were recognized for flyfishing. The ”modified slimbeauty” sounds to me to be a clinch knot. In general I thought we were talking about 100% knots, which the “Lefty Loop” is not, this knot is just a modification of the “Homer Rhodes Loop Knot” with more turns after the pass through. This knot was conceived by Homer back in the 1950’s.
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2010, 07:12 PM
wjc wjc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: south florida
Posts: 1,414
wjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant future
Default Re: Favorite "loop" knot?

Nedun,

I don't know when the 16 lb tippet came into being in the IGFA record books, but it was a lot longer than 15 years ago. My idea of "old days" and yours might be different though. But I lose track of time too, just like where my keys are, and it gets easier every day for me.

From the IGFA Hall of Fame Induction article about Billy Pate:
Quote:
But to Pate, light tackle fishing for tarpon is the ultimate challenge. His 188-pound, 7’5” tarpon, caught on 16-pound tippet on May 13, 1982 in Homosassa, Florida, was a record for 21 years.
I don't remember what the record was prior to Pate's, but the guys I tarpon fished with prior to that record were all using 15# and not 12. So maybe they added that tippet class not long before Pate's record in 1982. I don't know.

I didn't really get into tarpon fishing until the late 70's, though I caught my first one (a baby) in 1958 in the Miami river on a bass popper using a GBF taper. Pure luck. Though I have hooked them while meat fishing with conventional gear, I've never caught any on anything but a fly rod.

I think the thread was about favorite loops and somehow got sidetracked into 100% knots - that all knots should be as close to 100% as posible. I just don't agree that knot strength should be the primary consideration (though it is certainly important). But sometimes, as in the case of shock tippets to flies, it makes no sense at all.

Cheers,
Jim
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 10-18-2010, 02:31 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 13
nedun is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Favorite "loop" knot?

Jim: You are correct regarding the era that the tippet line classes proliferated, however prior to that time it was 12 lb. tippet class that was the standard for the South Florida fishing clubs, tournaments and Saltwater Flyrodders. I think the major changes occurred when the IGFA took over the Saltwater Flyrodders records. My latest issue in this regard is as follows:

I commend Tom Evans on his outstanding catch of a new world record tarpon on 12 lb. test. I still consider this to to be the sporting fly heavy tippet for regulation saltwater fly gear. I have felt that the tarpon that I caught and released on fly in 1972 would still have been the record on 12 lb. test tippet until now. Many of the record fish that were caught during this 38 year period were either not as large as my fish or caught on heavier tippet classes.

[The photo won't paste here, if you want to see it e-mail your e-address]

Photo of Norman Duncan with the 180+ Lb. tarpon (L=77”, G=44”), caught on 12 lb. test tippet, 12-weight Kennedy Fisher fly rod, Seamaster fly reel, and Chico’s Seducer Fly, guided by Gary Maconi in May 1972.
I remember quite clearly the circumstances of catching that big fish. Gary Maconi poled me up to a school of fish off Pine Island (probably the Oklahoma flat) and I hooked one on a Chico’s Seducer Fly that I had tied on a 4/0 Mustad hook. The feathers were saddle hackles as follows: two grizzlies, one yellow and one white per wing and the same combination palmered along the shank of the hook to the eye (you can see the fly quite clearly in the above photo, I still have the fly with the leader). After the fish made its initial runs and jumps we followed it and motored up close enough to see that this fish was still in the original school, however it was not the biggest fish in the school. There were fish in that school at least a foot longer than the one I had on, after a while the fish tired, it took about 45 minutes total to bring it to the boat. We measured the length (77”) and girth (44”) while it was in the water calming down, then Gary and I lifted the fish in and Gary took a couple of photos. We slid it back into the water and resuscitated the fish. We knew it was a record fish at the time but we didn't want to kill such a big beautiful animal because I felt strongly about not killing (this) these wild animals. After reviving the fish we followed it for quite some time, meanwhile I calculated the weight to be over 180 pounds. We decided that if the fish expired we would take it in and drive down to Sarasota to weigh it and claim it was caught off of Pine Island on the west coast (Charlotte Harbor) when it was really Pine Island north of Bayport. Meanwhile, the fish took off and hopefully rejoined the school.
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2010, 08:28 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: caribbean winter, Durango,CO summer
Posts: 134
gbanker is just really nicegbanker is just really nicegbanker is just really nicegbanker is just really nice
Default Re: Favorite "loop" knot?

Well, I used the overhand knot,through the eye, back through the overhand knot, four raps and back through the overhand knot, knot with 100% success. Seems this knot is variously called the "Orvis non-slip mono loop" or "Lefty's no slip loop knot".
__________________
"I hear voices, they tell me to go fishing"
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 11-01-2010, 07:02 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 13
nedun is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Favorite "loop" knot?

The “Homer Rhodes Loop Knot” was conceived by Homer back in the 1950’s. By the 1970's some of light tackle fishermen started to add more turns after the pass through the overhand to improve the strength. As many of these things go they take on new lives and names as the years go by. Norman
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Interesting "Finish" To An Albright Knot jamieof General Discussion 5 10-14-2010 02:36 PM
Favorite "Go to" fly for trout ?? tie one on General Discussion 18 05-21-2008 11:38 AM
Which Loop Knot do you use ? tie one on General Discussion 8 08-08-2007 04:54 PM













All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
2005-2014 The North American Fly Fishing Forum. All rights reserved.