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Old 03-23-2009, 07:42 PM
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Default Re: Is There a Real Advantage to Longer Rods?

I was young and stupid . Actually, my neighbor used to take me fishing
with that set-up while I was in college. That guy kept every fish that was
big enough for a morsel, and used to bring them home by the bucket load !
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Old 03-24-2009, 05:09 PM
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Default Re: Is There a Real Advantage to Longer Rods?

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Originally Posted by FrankB2 View Post
LOL!!!! I sense a bit of humor in the question, but it's a good one .

So the consensus is.....well....there is no consensus . I'm still young and athletic, but after tearing into my son's 1996 Caprice brakes and
suspension this past weekend, leaves me thinking Joni's 9' 6" 6wt might be
friendly. I almost bought a SW version of a couple manufacturer's
6wt's, but I don't know much about saltwater fishing (beyond fluke in
Barnegat Bay, NJ). Those we fished for with light spinning gear, and 6lb test.
Actually, no humor was intended. It's a different form of fishing that I'm not used to or know about. In stillwater you pretty much know your bottom structure and where the fish hang out. With waves, what keeps the flies from washing ashore as soon as you cast out? Is sinking line used, giant indicators, or just baitfish patterns and you get lucky if you hook up. For a mountain west guy it's really an interesting way of fishing.
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Old 03-24-2009, 05:19 PM
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Default Re: Is There a Real Advantage to Longer Rods?

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Originally Posted by mojo View Post
Actually, no humor was intended. It's a different form of fishing that I'm not used to or know about. In stillwater you pretty much know your bottom structure and where the fish hang out. With waves, what keeps the flies from washing ashore as soon as you cast out? Is sinking line used, giant indicators, or just baitfish patterns and you get lucky if you hook up. For a mountain west guy it's really an interesting way of fishing.

Actually, believe it or not a floating line is easier to use in surf like that. Any line you cast into that type of surf will wash back up if you don't do anything to stop it. The floating line actually allows you to mend over the waves so you fly stays past the breakers.
It's impossible to mend a sinking line (atleast for me). The basic idea is to cast your fly past the breakers, then mend over them so the waves won't push the running line back to shore.
This is why saltwater guys fight for distance when fishing the surf. The fish are out there, but if you can't double haul past the breakers your out of luck.
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Old 03-24-2009, 05:36 PM
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Default Re: Is There a Real Advantage to Longer Rods?

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what is that>!!!!!?????????? ;-)

LMFAO, someone cursed on Joni's watch!!
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Old 03-25-2009, 11:01 AM
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Default Re: Is There a Real Advantage to Longer Rods?

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Originally Posted by mojo View Post
Few questions for you Riptide (actually a lot) I've never been to the east or west coast to check out fishing like this:
What kind of set up do you use for fishing surf like this? Rod, reel, lines, flies? Do people use spy outfits to fish this?
How far out are the majority of the fish (from shore)?
How big is the wind factor? And how big generally are the waves?
So you cast out and then- what?
Mojo
First of all, yes, spey rods are the new hip method for the cool kids, but I'm a little slow to change myself.
I use two setups depending on the wind. In a breeze of 15 mph and under I'll use a 10' 8wt rod, overlined one or two sizes, SW reel with a decent drag, floating line. When it's really windy I'll use a 9' 10wt with a 10wt.full sinking line to better cut through the wind. I'll fish the surf until the waves get to about shoulder high. After that I'll leave it to the boys with the big 'meat rods'
For flies, you try to 'match the hatch' but big is better (7-8").
A regular set-up for me would be a 2/0, 8' flatwing with 1/0 4' 'blonde' for a dropper.

When you're reading the water, it's very much as if you were fishing for trout or any other fish that's holds in current.
Current plus structure equals holding water.
In the picture that I posted above, the whitewater in the rear is wave that's crashing over a sandbar.
Between the bar and the shore there's a trough where current travels along the beach toward a cut between the bars where water can exit the trough.
Bait fish get pummeled by the white water both on the inside of the bars and in the trough right against the shore.
Game fish will hunt along both of these areas and also hold in the fastest part of the current. Large and small points and 'bowls' along the beach also hold bait.
Often you'll need to cast out to the edge of the sandbars ...maybe 60-80', but just as likely the fish are right your feet, less than a rod's length away.
Knowing when to cast is half the battle.
Waves come in sets and some are bigger that others. Casting over the largest ones gives you a second or two extra to get your line under control.
Only the on-shore breakers will grab the line and drag it up the beach.
Waves that haven't broken will only move the line and fly up and down.
Like trout, the game fish like the bait to be at certain level. Sometimes on the bottom is best, but a dead drift combined with a little additional action from the waves is often the ticket too.
.....this is Surf 101, the basic version.... there's a lot more to it, of course
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Old 03-25-2009, 12:30 PM
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Default Re: Is There a Real Advantage to Longer Rods?

Hi RipTide,
I made the trade for the 9'6" VT2 8wt. I haven't bought a line yet, but you're
saying you underline by 2 wts. I have six weight line, so I'll tie up the biggest
nastiest Clouser I have a hook for, and give that a whirl.
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Old 03-25-2009, 12:33 PM
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Default Re: Is There a Real Advantage to Longer Rods?

Overline

With the heavier line you can cast larger flies with a lighter rod
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Old 03-25-2009, 12:34 PM
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Default Re: Is There a Real Advantage to Longer Rods?

Ohhhh.....DUH It did seem a bit odd.......
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Old 03-25-2009, 02:01 PM
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Default Re: Is There a Real Advantage to Longer Rods?

Best thing about long rods is increased line speed which helps push flies through the heavy winds associated with most good saltwater beach fishing (kinda like comparing swinging a putter and a 1 iron at a golf ball .. both heads are cut at the same angle both swing tempos are the same but the 1 iron will definitely send the ball further due to the length of the shaft which increases the clubs head speed). But, there is also a depreciating return with single handed rods where as the longer the stick the more tension thats applied to the casting arm and hand especially when dealing with saltwater line weights of 8 and above.

Using two hands greatly reduces the stress issue and longer rods are then used to a greater advantage. There are two hand rods being used in the surf up to 18' in length with shooting heads up to 1150gr's very effectively on our coasts.

Those that use longer rods swear by them those who don't swear at them .... in short there are no hard and fast rules you just have to take the time and try various techniques and make up your own mind as to whether or not there is an advantage for YOU.
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Old 03-26-2009, 06:23 PM
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Default Re: Is There a Real Advantage to Longer Rods?

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Originally Posted by Rip Tide View Post
Mojo
First of all, yes, spey rods are the new hip method for the cool kids, but I'm a little slow to change myself...........................this is Surf 101, the basic version.... there's a lot more to it, of course
Little slow to change? Come on man, we (Joni and I) just picked up some new two handed rods (spey) and itching to try them out. Just learning to cast them is quite a feat to correctly do it and not make a mess of things but it's the most fun I've had in a long time.
FWIW, I got almost 2 years on you and I'm having fun with the new fangled hip rods. Time to shake off the dust and give them a try. You ain't that old.
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