Originally Posted by Red Owl
Okay, I have never actually tied such a fly, instead I thought I would tap in to all the experts and ask their thoughts and ideas.
Right now most subsurface fishing consists of:
1. Nymphs, either dead drift, strip, or lift.
2. Wet flies, drift or lift.
I was recently reading that caddis flies often out number may flies. I also read how about half of the adult caddis flies re-enter the water and swim to the bottom to deposit eggs, The wings are flat over the back and the legs used in swimming. I read that the gold tinsel tail on a lead wing coach man suggested an egg sack and the reason the lead wing coach man doesn't have a tail is because caddis flies don't have a tail.
Okay, I got to thinking: If the egg sack is important, and if the caddis fly adult is swimming to the bottom to deposit eggs, then it seems a trout would hit this fly while in was descending to the bottom. I am not sure if there are many current techniques that are designed to take trout with a descending fly but in some instances, because of casting obstructions, etc, an option of presenting a descending fly may have value.
so let's design such a fly!
If it is a caddis there would be no tail. The egg sack- that I don't know- it could be gold tinsel, yellow floss, or green or red. The body, maybe peacock herl or fur. I read that fur soaks up water and has translucent qualities not found in wool or synthetics- so I would be favorable towards the fur. What color? Tan? Brown? Green? The fly may need to be weighted. I thought about a cone/bead head but the weight may be too far forward, the wings may act as a rubber and cause the fly to drop straight down. maybe a few wraps across the wing position. The idea is for the fly to sink with the body tilted down at about a 45 degree angle- as if it is swimming to the bottom.
A lot of caddis flies have a palmered hackle the entire distance of the body but in looking at the naturals the legs are under the thorax, what about putting on the abdomen, then feeding in the hackle, then dubbing on the thorax and doing a plamered hackle just over the thorax? A lot of caddis flies have spotted type legs so perhaps brown partridge on the hackle?
On the wings, I hate tying on quill and am not very good at it but for those who are a lot of caddis look to have mottled wings so light turkey would probably work. I was thinking about ginger or brown hackle points tied in to lay along the body and maybe a few fibers of the partridge over them to create a mottled look. A combination of mixed hair and partridge fibers could also be used.
In any event a fly must be designed to not twist about while being cast and to act properly in the water and some of you are experts in knowing what materials would work best so that's why I have thrown out my thoughts. I would appreciate any comments. If my entire idea is flawed; or, if such a pattern already exists- then let me know- no use wasting my time on something if it isn't doable.
Hello Red Owl,
Interesting question, I have no idea if such a Caddis fly has been developed before. I would assume that someone has tried this concept in one form or another at some point in the history of fly tying and fishing, it seems like LaFontaine had some patterns that were designed for egg laying and diving BWO's though.
My thoughts on the design are this; I would want the fly to be sparse in dressing (much like that of a traditional Wet Fly) so that it sinks into the desired water column quickly, bulky flies needing more weight added to get them down.
The direction I would pursue would tend to be a blend of natural fur mixed with a synthetic material such as antron, this would add just a little sparkle and hopefully give it a bit of life like appearance.
I would use a fur that does not come from a water based critter such as muskrat or beaver unless the fur has been degreased, the body oils from these animals can repel water, actually this may not matter on this fly.
Sinking to the desired depth and how quickly brings up other questions as to how much weight will be needed? and where it will be placed on the hook shank so as to achieve the proper attitude? also do you want a heavy wire hook or a light wire hook?
My personnal though would be to start with a lighter wire hook with a few lead wraps placed in the thorax area so it will have the desired diving action.
For this type of fly I would shy away from using a bed at the eye (but that's just me as I'm finding that I am using beads less and less.) Perhaps you could adjust it accordingly on the shank, in the middle or the rear? but that will change your flies appearance during the drop.
As far as the egg sack. I would think that the illusion of it certainly would not hurt and would give an additional 'Positive Attribute'. A very popular Caddis pattern on the Henrys' Fork has a bright green egg sac on the aft portion of the fly, this pattern rides high on the surface and is usually fished dry, but I'm guessing it could be weighted and fished wet.
The hackle or collar, you could use just about anything here, I would adjust accordingly to what size and color were needed.
Also you may want a sparse tail made from antron like that of a trailing shuck. My reasoning being this; when the insect is trying to dive down I would think it would have oxygen bubbles trailing off it's body much like a rising nymph will have a trail of gases from it's nymphal schuck trailing behind. This effect could also come from dipping the fly in some sort of dessicant before fishing.
So there you have my thoughts, probably completely off base for what you are asking.