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Old 05-10-2014, 11:20 PM
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Default The Reason Double Hand Rods take such a heavier line?

Hey Guys. Was hoping somebody could help me out on understanding why double handed rods use such a heavier line weight than single handed rods.

For example, my new 6 weight switch rod (6 according to CCS) would need a 6 weight line (~160 grains) to properly load it for overhand casting (basically if I was just using it as a long single handed rod). But if I want to actually use it for two handed casting, SA says I'd need to use an 8 weight Sharkskin or Mastery Series line (which would be ~210 grains for the first 30'), or a Scandi 360 or even a Skagit 440 grain.

I understand that this disparagement is the case depending on what type of casting one plans on doing. But why? Does it have to do with the fact that by using waterborne anchors (in which case the line weight is somewhat supported by the water and applies less loading force on the rod) a heavier line is needed to apply the same amount of force that a lighter line applies in overhand casting (where a higher percentage of a given line weight's force is applied directly to loading the rod since it is traveling in a path approximately perpendicular to the rod and supported by air rather than water)?

Or am I wrong about even my basic assumptions here?
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Old 05-10-2014, 11:34 PM
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Default Re: The Reason Double Hand Rods take such a heavier line?

I would say you are thinking along the right lines with what you said here. Although I never gave it much thought I do take notice to the infusion of ultra light Spey & switch rods lately. I've seen rods rated as light as #4 being sold and discussed. That puzzles me......

To go beyond what you have said; the true Spey cast is what I would call a very large or long 'roll cast'. In order to transmit the energy from the rod into the line, and for the line to have the necessary mass to carry itself and in some cases a large water soaked weighted fly for some 100 foot across the river, you need mass. In this case grains per foot.

I picture all those people with the ultra light Spey rods trying to cast an Intruder or Bunny Leech 100 or more feet and I don't think it'll be easy. I believe my lightest line is 600 grains in a 55' belly. The heaviest is a 880 in a 65 foot belly. I have an 11'6" Hardy Swift and it uses a Rio Outbound 370 grain in a 36' belly.

The weight is what carries the various payloads across the distances for me, and soon for you too

Ard

PS. What make - weight and length is your rod? If I can't offer a good guess perhaps someone else is using the same thing and can help with a line selection if you haven't already got one. I have had to try at least 2 lines on every rod I have to get things tuned in with them. My old Hardy I tried 3 before I got it right. The way I zeroed it in was to contact the Carron line company in Scotland and let them tell me what would work. It took them 2 weeks to find a guy who had the same rod and was on their staff but they nailed it for me. Sometimes you need to go to the rod maker or line maker to get it right.
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Old 05-11-2014, 01:32 AM
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Default Re: The Reason Double Hand Rods take such a heavier line?

As a new user of both Spey and Switch rods I think it's stupid.

Just call it what it is. A 6wt switch should throw a line in the standard AFTMA line weight range, and an 8wt should do the same.

To make it all more confusing companies like Buella and Batson rate their rods with the AFTMA standards while others don't.

Why all the confusion?
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Old 05-11-2014, 01:41 AM
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Default Re: The Reason Double Hand Rods take such a heavier line?

I think it has to do with the various head / belly lengths and the fact that many Spey - Skagit & Scandi lines far outweigh AFTMA fly lines which are used with traditional fly rods. I understand that you are frustrated trying to decipher the Spey code but trust me, in time most of it, the part which pertains to you will make sense.
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Old 05-11-2014, 08:41 AM
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Default Re: The Reason Double Hand Rods take such a heavier line?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyreels View Post
I think it has to do with the various head / belly lengths and the fact that many Spey - Skagit & Scandi lines far outweigh AFTMA fly lines which are used with traditional fly rods. I understand that you are frustrated trying to decipher the Spey code but trust me, in time most of it, the part which pertains to you will make sense.
+1 to what Ard's said in his last two postings. The primary reason for using a spey rod is you're fishing in tight quarters (tree line/brush right behind you) where you have limited room for a back cast with a single hander.

Second is an all day session with a single hander will/can really sap you dry from fatigue. With a 2hander, if you're properly casting, you won't get any where near that bit unless you're using 15 foot and plus heavy rods.

As to 'why' all the different lines? Depends where/how you want to fish (and to a degree for 'what') will dictate what line(s) you will use. The short heads are 'mass in the ass' to chuck heavy wet flies, sink tips, etc.

As to why these are rated in 'grains' rather than the AFTMA scale that has to do with AFTMA only considers the first 30 foot of line. A spey line rating (in grains) takes into account the entire head regardless of length. Or another way of putting that is the line is 600 grains, but that could be in a 35' head or over 65 feet.

With rare exception (Gary Anderson's custom rods comes to mind) most 2handers have a 'grain range' that will properly load a given rod blank. You're choice (depending upon your ability as a caster) is to choose something within that range that properly loads the rod for your casting/fly of choice.

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Old 05-11-2014, 12:08 PM
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Default Re: The Reason Double Hand Rods take such a heavier line?

Thanks guys.

"Or another way of putting that is the line is 600 grains, but that could be in a 35' head or over 65 feet. " Ah, now that clears up a lot.

The rod is a kit "by Roger" off ebay. It's my first build so I didn't want to drop a lot of $ on it. (And that was a good idea. While I didn't mess anything up, the eoxy is not the prettiest job I've seen on a rod.) He rated it 5.65, but it came out right at 6 for me on the CCS. Here's the exact same kit I bought if that helps anyone:

Switch Rod Kit 4pc 5wt 11 ft Two Tips Reddish Brown by Roger | eBay

I'm meeting with a THCI in the next week or so for us to figure out a line for it. Not knowing proper casting technique, I doubt I could find a right fit for it even if I did try 3 or 4 different lines.
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