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Spey Rods and Switch Rods - Fly Fishing Tackle Talk! Discuss all the latest Spey and Switch fly rods and double handed fly fishing rods here.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 01-11-2014, 01:46 PM
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Default Re: Switch rod length factor

I wouldn't make any conclusions about these rods while casting with an overweight line. Beulah recommends a 300-325 grain head for the 5/6, so it's understandable that it had problems with a 420 grain head. Some rods will handle being overloaded better than others. I've heard from more than one person that the Sage One can handle much heavier heads than what Sage has rated them for. To me this may even be a disadvantage. Kind of like expecting to fish for trout with a dainty 4 wt single hand rod but instead having to deal with an 8 wt cannon.

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Old 01-11-2014, 01:54 PM
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Default Re: Switch rod length factor

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaybo41 View Post
Really interesting write up on your experiment. Thanks for sharing it here. I'm new to two handed rods and still learning so by no means am I an expert, though I do have 3 years of them under my belt now.

One thing I know about 2 hand rods and specifically the Beulah's is that they seem to be more picky about the right line than single hand rods. Maybe that's just in my head, but I know that lots of guys try lots of different lines before getting the right match. What I know about Beulah is that their recommendations are pretty spot on and I'd personally opt for their recommendations on line weight over any other line manufacturer. By all accounts I've read, that classic rod you have is a good one. I'm in agreement, it's got to be the line.

Did you order line from Steve for it? I've heard nothing but great things there. Like going to a tailor and getting a suit custom fit for you versus getting something off the shelf.
We are all a student of this art form.
I think you are much right about that specific grain weight for the Beulah.
I could just pick the recommended Elixir line and things would be easier. However, instead I picked the wrong one and make things harder. Oh well, at least I get to learn a lot of new things by doing it.

Yes, I ordered the custom cut line from Steve. and the funny thing is, he quoted himself exactly like you did "Like going to a tailor and getting a suit custom fit for you versus getting something off the shelf"
Almost like a copy/paste quote.

If the custom cut line is like Steve's reputation, then he'll have my future business for the switch lines.

Dang, my shoulder is getting sore now.
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Old 01-11-2014, 02:56 PM
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Default Re: Switch rod length factor

By every account I've noted, Steve makes incredible lines and the advantage is that you have line to suit not only your rod but how you fish with it but some rods don't seem to need a custom cut quite as much as others. There are some rods though that seem to be more tolerant to a variety of line manufacturers and have a wider grain window than the Beaulah rods do, just as Tyler mentioned in his post. That's not a knock on Beulah, they know their rods very well and though all of my reading, make a fine rod.

I'm of the opinion that each time I'm out on the water or practice casting, I try to learn something new. Nothing ventured, nothing gained I suppose.
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Old 01-11-2014, 08:49 PM
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Default Re: Switch rod length factor

Unfortunately, the one switch rod that I picked for my beginner setup happens to be the picky one. It is just my luck or maybe I just didn't do my homework. No regrets, I'll learn on how to use it or....just sell it.
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Old 01-11-2014, 09:29 PM
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Default Re: Switch rod length factor

Quote:
Originally Posted by runningfish View Post
Unfortunately, the one switch rod that I picked for my beginner setup happens to be the picky one. It is just my luck or maybe I just didn't do my homework. No regrets, I'll learn on how to use it or....just sell it.
With today's 2hander designs there are very few 'dogs,' but properly lining them can get pretty pricie. As noted above, give Steve a call (be ready for a long conversation) and have him build you one. Won't cost you a penny more than something 'off the shelf.'

Only one additional suggestion; have the line done as a 'head system' and an independent shooting/running line. That way, with this or other rods, all you need is another 'front end' of the fly line. One other thing to ask Steve to do is put a section (end of the shooting line) of some high vis colour (mine are bright orange) that's just a tad longer than rod tip to cork.

Where this comes into play is stripping in your line for your next cast. Bottom of the orange goes 'right here' so you don't have to waste time staring at your rod tip.
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Old 01-11-2014, 11:42 PM
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Default Re: Switch rod length factor

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredaevans View Post
With today's 2hander designs there are very few 'dogs,' but properly lining them can get pretty pricie. As noted above, give Steve a call (be ready for a long conversation) and have him build you one. Won't cost you a penny more than something 'off the shelf.'

Only one additional suggestion; have the line done as a 'head system' and an independent shooting/running line. That way, with this or other rods, all you need is another 'front end' of the fly line. One other thing to ask Steve to do is put a section (end of the shooting line) of some high vis colour (mine are bright orange) that's just a tad longer than rod tip to cork.

Where this comes into play is stripping in your line for your next cast. Bottom of the orange goes 'right here' so you don't have to waste time staring at your rod tip.
Steve asked me why I wanted to have a fully integrated fly line and I told him that in my stillwater lakes the fish move so much and I strip my streamers really close before I recast. I Perry Poke a lot
I just sent him an email to ask him to ask that bright orange.

---------- Post added at 12:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:35 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler_durden View Post
I wouldn't make any conclusions about these rods while casting with an overweight line. Beulah recommends a 300-325 grain head for the 5/6, so it's understandable that it had problems with a 420 grain head. Some rods will handle being overloaded better than others. I've heard from more than one person that the Sage One can handle much heavier heads than what Sage has rated them for. To me this may even be a disadvantage. Kind of like expecting to fish for trout with a dainty 4 wt single hand rod but instead having to deal with an 8 wt cannon.

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No, I didn't mean to make any conclusions at all. Just wanted to see and find which rods that will fit to my needs. They all good rods and like you said some of them can't handle the overload and some can.
thank you for your insight.
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Old 01-12-2014, 12:08 AM
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Default Re: Switch rod length factor

You did a thorough job of laying out the conditions affecting your experiment/observations. It didn't come across as some sort of rod shootout with a winner or loser for anyone other than yourself.
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Old 01-12-2014, 01:13 AM
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Default Re: Switch rod length factor

Quote:
Originally Posted by runningfish View Post
Let's say a shorter guy is using a 11ft rod, will 11'6" make a lot of different assuming he is casting the same distance?
Sorry for not keeping up with the discussion.............

Honestly I don't know why I would do that, meaning add 6". I bought an 11'6" rod last year to use on medium - small creeks where the long cast will be 35' I hope. The only reason I wanted the 2 hand handle was that using an 8 weight single hand pulling and casting those big Sculpin patterns was hard on the wrist - elbow - and shoulder. I wanted to be able to learn to do short 2 hand casts in these situations because I've been banged up so much over the years that it is catching up as I close in on 60.

If you really want to cast long why not go to a 13' rod at least? A 13 with a 55' short head will blast out some big casts once you learn the system. I may mess with the 11'6" Swift I got just to see if I can hit 60' or so but when I really need that distance I'll fish a longer rod.

I see there are a bunch more posts and I haven't read them all so what I'm saying may be irrelevant.
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Old 01-12-2014, 02:58 PM
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Default Re: Switch rod length factor

No, I am not trying to bomb out 100ft of line. The main reason why I bought a switch rod was I had no back casting room in many lakes that I am fishing in.
And the reason why I just wanted a 11' or 11'6" switch rod is because I still want to be able to cast single hand with it.
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Old 01-18-2014, 10:38 PM
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Default Re: Switch rod length factor

I finally able to do the second part of the rod sampling this morning.
With me were the Beulah Classic, Sage One and Redington Prospector.
Using SGS line 348 grain 26ft head+Rio Versi Leader 10FT 2.6ips+ 3" wired, bushy pink practice fly. Casting on the grass.

The Beulah was able to cast this custom line easily, getting 65-75ft, but still requires good timing. Consistent tight loops and good line speed. This rod feels like it was casting from the tip.

Then the Prospector rated 325 +/- 25 grain, was better and still easier to cast than the Beulah, doesn't really require such precise time as the Beulah, more feel or more alive than the Beulah. The line speed is almost the same when it was casting the chucker #6 last week.

The Sage One is still the king, above the two in the casting easiness, distance, and timing. The One however felt like asking for a little bit more grain. To be honest, i didn't want to put the One down. I was difficult to put it down and switch back to the Beulah.

The winner of today's sampling is Me as I could find the Beulah potential and starting to crack the code. The custom cut line was made for Beulah and performs great.

I went to a local lake just with the Beulah, and with only the tip of my sandals in the water, I started to cast. For shorter distance >50ft, the Beulah would ask more line.
Overall nice casts but not great. The Beulah felt so heavy to switch cast even after I rolled out the leader prior to every cast. However, the Beulah excels in T-snap and Perry Poke casts and felt so light with firm tug at the end of the cast.

I changed the Rio Versileader with a free snowbee versileader 10ft 2.6ips. The snowbee versilieader thickness is only half of the Rio's. and Houston we have a lift off.
The Beulah could pick up the line and cast it much easier with the snowbee than with Rio.
I never heard of Snowbee brand until someone gave them to me 2 days ago.

I might going to take the Prospector or the One out and try them on the water if I still have the time before returning them. By the way, all three rods didn't like the custom line cast overhead. It wasn't designed nor cut for overhead casting. The Beulah will overhead cast Rio OBS 8wt superbly, the Prospector will overhead and spey/switch cast the same OBS superbly too. I didn't try the One with it yet, so I don't know.

To summarize this experiment, The Beulah is a very good rod given the right balance setup, the right timing and technique. I will keep the Beulah since learning to use it will only sharpen my skills (if I have any to begin with).

That's all folks, please remember, this sampling is based from a newbie's skills, experience and your mileage may vary.
Please feel free to chip in.
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