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Warmwater Fly Fishing Bass, Bream, Perch, etc...

View Poll Results: what should happen to the carp
become a game fish 28 27.18%
stay as a nongame fish 49 47.57%
i don't care 26 25.24%
Voters: 103. You may not vote on this poll

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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 02-26-2012, 04:08 PM
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Default Re: what do you think of carp.

Ugg, so much wrong with that post. If i caught a 30+lb freshwater anything i wouldnt toss it into the weeds if you paid me.
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Old 02-26-2012, 05:35 PM
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Default Re: what do you think of carp.

Here's a bit for you who might be interested and it illustrates a common and costly phenomena. Van indicated above, "However, they are a ravenous invasive species. They have deeply impacted the bird colonies, causing a massive population decline in birds, at the Malheur wildlife refuge. Considering their invasive nature i cant/wont support them as a game species." Whoops that sure appears to be "confusing the cause with the effect," or that "costly phenomena," I mentioned just above. It's not Van's fault though as that's straight out of the US F&W Services rants and solutions manual for Malheur Lake.

Here's the rest of the story: That Lake is a Shallow marshy lake that drys almost completley up during some dryer years ( a very water poor area for starts with averge rainfall under 6 inches many years) and it has a long history of watershed misuse from many sources. It gathers water from a Basin that has been overallocated as far as water goes for over 100 years. So badly in fact it's used as a teaching aid with before and after pictures for historical grazing abuses. (think massive piles of cattle and sheep doodoo) In short every drop of water that flows is being put to Ag in one way or another or for other use. The land has been under attack just as heavily also. At any rate, the fertilizer, aka poop infused water, runoff from these uses is what flows into shallow, marsh Malheur Lake before slowly soaking through the sand dunes into Harney Lake. (There used to be a clear channel there but it's pretty much filled in over the years.) Following decades of severe overgrazing by first massive flocks of sheep (hundreds of thousands) and then cattle which peaked in the 1970s the lakes which have no outlet didn't have a chance as lakes go, so the US Govt turned Malheur into a Bird Refuge and built a rookery island, etc to attract birds by the millions. Birds eat and inturn provide superb fertilizer (chicken poop is second only to rabbit poop for a garden as long as you don't over do it.) To make a long story shorter, the Lake was soon a lovely shade of greenish brown and a cess pool and some where along the way Carp were introduced. The eutrophication soon decimated all other fish populations, killed out the original plant life and soon even the birds began to suffer. No problem as the US Govt in their infinite brillance, recognized the problem with the lake and it was those pesky "Carp!!!" Yes grazing was somewhat back to acceptable levels by then, but little has been done concerning the other problems and uses.

Of course with too many (introduced and invasive) birds, in part, moved there to alleviate the predation on young salmonids down on the Columbia/Snake systems, (more government help!) there's little hope for the refuge if their solution is just to remove the Carp!

Now you can believe what you'd like, of course, but it sure seems to me the Carp isn't the problem although I will admit they need a bit more population control there than Mother Nature hindered by Man can provide but to blame the Carp well that's sad!

p.s. Before those Carp were the problem it was the pesky Coyotes that decimated the nesting birds! Not! but that's another Government Tom Foolery Story!
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Old 02-26-2012, 05:49 PM
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Default Re: what do you think of carp.

When I was a kid, I grew up close by the Connecticut River.
During the spring flood, carp would move up out of the river to feed in the flooded meadows right down the road from my house. When the waters receded many carp would get trapped in the "puddles" in the fields
We'd go down there with bows and arrows rigged for fishing.
It was like "shootin' fish in a barrel"
The town dump was on the same road and we'd sell our "catch" to the "sanitation engineers" on the garbage trucks.
A 30-40 pound fish was good for enough money to get a Sprite and a Crunch Bar on the way home
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Old 02-26-2012, 05:55 PM
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Default Re: what do you think of carp.

We really dont need politics in any threads around here. In the here and now, carp are a huge problem in the MWR. Lots of things have contributed to that, but it usually comes back to people.
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Old 02-26-2012, 09:48 PM
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Default Re: what do you think of carp.

Lake michigan flats fishing. You cant beat it for fun. Looks like It could be the Florida Keys, doesnt it?
This is not me but i have done this and its a blast!!

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Old 02-26-2012, 10:29 PM
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Default Re: what do you think of carp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vans View Post
We really dont need politics in any threads around here. In the here and now, carp are a huge problem in the MWR. Lots of things have contributed to that, but it usually comes back to people.
Well my apologies if I even remotely came close to politics as opposed to government in general and poor land and water conservation pracitces. You are dead right about it coming back to people. That entire area is a poster child for historically poor conservation practices concerning Ag but especially for forestry, grazing and irrigation and the results are the watershed, wetlands and lakes we now do or do not enjoy.

This has been going on for years to little avail. As the F&WS rep says, "One solution -- fishing -- isn't a possibility for now. The refuge doesn't allow the public to angle for carp in Malheur Lake. And winning approval would likely be an unwieldy process involving insertion of a proposal in the Federal Register in Washington, D.C., and probably would take two years, Beck said."

" 1957: 1.5 million carp killed in Malheur Lake and nearby Boca Lakes
1959: 58,000 carp killed in Blitzen River and Sodhouse Pond
1960: 400,000 carp killed in Malheur Lake and Blitzen River
1961: 150,000 carp killed in Malheur Lake and Blitzen River
1968: 240,000 carp killed throughout refuge
1969: Blitzen River treated with rotenone, number of carp killed unknown
1977: Unknown thousands killed in Malheur Lake and 50,000 killed in Blitzen River
1992: 100,000 killed in Blitzen River and Sodhouse Pond "

I certainly agree that it's an ongoing problem but if they are really serious they'll open it to both sport and commercial fishing as well as any other methods routinely used for control but more importantly attack the primary problems rather than a single symptom (the Carp).
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Old 02-26-2012, 10:57 PM
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Default Re: what do you think of carp.

I was down in the area last summer. Went fishing in the Donner und Blitzen river which is a bit south of that. I stopped in the local fly shop on my way through town and grabbed a flyer for the carp derby they were holding at the refuge. I was a week early. :|

Sure, that was a one off, but it is a foot in the door. Hopefully they will take more drastic steps. Right now they are building islands in the refuge for Caspian Terns to nest on. Apparently they think they will have an impact on the carp numbers. Hope so.

I say let some commercial netters in there briefly and then allow fishing certain times of the year. It is gonna be difficult any way we look at it due to mating seasons of all the different species of birds.

We really loved the area when we were there and will be back soon. It is gonna cost us all a lot of money, again.
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Old 02-26-2012, 11:35 PM
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Default Re: what do you think of carp.

Just another point on the Malheur and other places were innovative solutions aren't being used too full advantage. Back in the 70's I took my open water SCUBA students to a Carp Spearfishing tournement held at Grand Lake McConneahy in Nebraska. I've had a long lover affair with spearfishing in the salt and wondered what a tournement in freshwater would be like plus wanted to let the students experience one of the many hobbies that comes from SCUBA. The first thing I noticed different was some of the nice prizes, and the huge numbers of participants. This was big time! About then an eighteen wheeler pulled in with a hopper bed on behind like they carry oranges or onions in. I asked a local what that was for and he said the fish! Some boats came back with Carp weights of hundred lbs and more. Since then they hold that tourny and a couple others there each year and that's the kind of determined effort that controls the rough fish population.



or here's another: The Great Lakes Bowfishing Championship (G.L.B.C.) | Caseville, Michigan

Or the Carp O Rama--Nebraska gets the award for creative thinking again.
Archives for June 2010 | NEBRASKAland Magazine - Page 6

In the end whether you call them a game fish, anuisance, an "invasive," species, or worse you'll be missing out on a lot of fun by not going after these denizens of the deep plus you can be part of the solution where they are too abundant!

On the tern and that might just work but will take abit. Couple it with your idea of commercial fishing and they have a shot at control. Out back of town here we have a newly filled 7000 acre reservoir and fish and game stocked it with over a quarter milliojn trout from five to ten inches long. In no time the terns, mergansers and cormorants came in and took care of that before the anglers really got a shot at the fish! The one bay over deeper water held hundreds of fish eating birds!
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Old 03-04-2012, 01:42 PM
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Default Re: what do you think of carp.

Carp are great fun, I don't think they need protecting. Leave them as "rough" fish. No rules or regs. on catching them. You won't get rid of them.

When I was a young lad, before I had a drivers license I along with my buddies would walk the 4-5 blocks to the downtown main street. Behind the buildings ran the Milwaukee River. To us kids it was know as "the River". In the fall you could catch Northerns, but the rest of the summer we caught Carp. Lots of Carp. We used dough balls, flour and corn meal mixed with water. We'd carry the stuff around in sandwich bags. This was about the only fishing available to the kids in town. When we caught a Carp it was dispatched (a hefty rock to the head) and put back in the river. Sometimes I'd bring some home for my Mom's gardens. Some kids left them on the bank. I never liked the idea of leaving them on the bank because of the stink. But it was a good way to find other peoples prize Carp fishing spots. The average Carp was about 3-5 pounds. A 10 pounder was a giant. They were a blast on our Zebco 202's.

It's been 40 some years since I've been a young lad. Times were different. I never heard of anybody releasing a fish alive. It was something that was just not done. Even the people that fished for proper fish never tossed them back, unless they were too small to eat. Everything was taken home and eaten. I don't think anybody but us kids fished for those beasts. I never saw an adult fishing the river. At that time The River was a dirty stinking thing that many sewers and drains ran straight into. I remember seeing the drains from some of the Manufacturing places and the horrible discolored water that ran into the river, and how for 100yds downstream it looked brown/rust and nothing grew along there. Below the Dairy outlet there was a white film all over the rocks. But it was all we had. How I loved fish for carp.

We also used a bow and arrow to get them. We didn't have special arrows or reels on our bows. We used the 29 cent wood arrows on our 35lb recurve bows. We would wade upstream in the river looking for Carp feeding on the duckweed on the surface in the pools or slower spots along the edges. It's not easy to hit a carp while wading. If we were lucky enough to hit one you had to run to catch them while the arrow thrashed around in the river before the arrow came out. You always had to wear sneakers in the river as there was lots of broken glass in there.

I remember when some of the first clean-up efforts started. People were organized to clean up the river by removing junk in the river. It was a good and bad thing. Not only did they remove the bottles, barbed wire, shopping carts and old tires but they removed tree branches and fallen logs. But it was a good start.

I got away from Carp fishing when I could start driving. Then I could hit some of the local lakes for proper fish to catch. Then even that stopped when I started working, got married and started a family.

Fortunately our first house that we owned was on the Milwaukee river. So I took my kids Carp fishing. We used light weight spinning rods instead of Zebco 202's. But other than that it was the same. A 5 lb Carp tires slower than a 8 year old kid I found out.

A Dam was removed on the south side of town, the DNR did some stream improvement, put large boulders on the edges and planted Smallmouth and Walleyes. Sometime in between this all the sewers and drainage pipes stopped. And the Carp were still there.

I haven't fished for Carp for 20 years I'll bet.

I started Fishing pretty heavily last year as I now have time being retired. I do alot of Steelhead and Smallmouth fishing. I did hook into a Carp last summer when smallie fishing. I was using a 8wt rod and he hauled me around for 5-10 minutes. I don't think he knew he was even hooked. When he came close to where I was wading in the river he really took off for the far bank and buried himself in some fallen lumber, that was the end of that. I had to break off. But it had awaken an old love of mine.

This summer I plan on going after Carp specifically. I might even make the drive down to the Milwaukee river and give it a try again. I'll bet the Carp are still there.
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