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Old 07-25-2012, 12:17 PM
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Default Re: Level leader question - fly sizes

I used a perfection loop on the butt of the leader to attach to the fly line, but the middle portions I use a seaguar knot -- supposedly stronger than surgeon's or blood knots (or uni). I tried blood knots, but got mixed results -- some held well, and others I "tested" and could break very easily so I gave up on it. Maybe I'm using 2 pieces of mono that are not similar enough in diameter (?)

Anyway, the seaguar feels quite strong and isn't at all hard to tie. It is just as smooth as the surgeon's in the same pound test, so I can't find a reason not to use it honestly.

---------- Post added at 11:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 AM ----------

Quote:
Turbine,

You're relatively close to me, we should hook up and hit some water...perhaps I can be of some help...although there's alot more experience on here than I have.
Hey there! Where do you like to fish around here? Do you wade out, or use a canoe? The only places I've hit are gravelly point/roache's run park and 4-mile run thus far. I haven't honed in my casting to get brave enough to fish at a more crowded place
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:36 PM
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Default Re: Level leader question - fly sizes

I wouldn't give up on the blood knot so quick. They just don't break if you're tying them right. That seaguar knot is bulky and will catch weeds and a surgeon's knot doesn't finish "straight".
The blood knot is the right one for the job
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Old 07-25-2012, 01:37 PM
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Default Re: Level leader question - fly sizes

I'll try the blood knot again I suppose.....how many turns? I was using 3 on both sides, and running the tag in opposite directions. Pull it tight, then check it, and *snap*.

I've been attaching 12 pound >> 8 pound with it, and also 20 pound >> 12 pound with it.

Is this too much of a jump in size for the blood knot to handle?

Honstly, I'd do the blood knot if I could tie it well -- I just can't get it.
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Old 07-25-2012, 02:20 PM
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Default Re: Level leader question - fly sizes

I usually do 3 1/2 (minimum) to 4 1/2 turns.
The diameter of the material will dictate how many. When the material resists making another turn you'll know that's enough.
The thinner the material, the more turns you'll need
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Old 07-25-2012, 03:42 PM
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Default Re: Level leader question - fly sizes

I prefer knotted leaders.

I use a nail knot to connect fly line to 6-8" 50 lb. mono. and put a dot of Flexament or epoxy on the knot. Then tie a perfection loop on the end of it. I then tie a perfection loop onto the butt section of my leader.

For the larger mono sections I use blood knots and leave very small tag ends. I use minute amounts of Flexament or epoxy to strengthen and smooth out these knots so they don't snag. Don't want anything too bulky, because it could affect line travel.

Finally, for the smaller mono sections down to the tippet I use double surgeons knots, but will take a look at the Seaguar knot (sp?) These does not create a perfect linear connection, but will the small dia. mono. I don't think it matters that much.

In 40 years of fishing, I do not recall having a knot fail.
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Old 07-25-2012, 03:45 PM
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Default Re: Level leader question - fly sizes

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbineblade View Post
Okay - that sounds fair! I'll look at making my own mono leaders - probably a 20# butt section >> 12# mid section >> 8# tippet. If I can't turn things over well, I'll modify from there.

Thanks,
I used a leader exactly like that to land those large carp last weekend. Its roughly 4' of 20#, 12-18" of 12#, and 3' of 8#/3x.

I use a heavier butt section on my 7wt+ leaders, but 20# Trilene Big-Game is plenty stiff for 6wt and down.
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Old 07-25-2012, 04:47 PM
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Default Re: Level leader question - fly sizes

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Originally Posted by turbineblade View Post
I was using 3 on both sides, and running the tag in opposite directions. Pull it tight, then check it, and *snap*.
No way you could snap a blood knot in heavy weight mono...granted I've never seen you, no normal man would at least.

Ditto what Rip Tide said. The size jump should not matter, as I wrote earlier the standard formula I use for trout leaders is 25# to 12# with a blood knot and it holds! Use the minimum 3 1/2 turns on the 25# and then do 4 1/2 or 5 on the smaller diameter. Hold the tags (in teeth) and pull the lines lightly till they just get tight enough to hold the tag but not cinch down yet. Then lubricate the knots really well and pull slowly to tighten it up. You'll know when you get it right, by look and feel.
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Old 07-25-2012, 04:49 PM
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Default Re: Level leader question - fly sizes

Give the double uni knot a try if you can't seem to get the blood knot to work for some reason. It's very easy to tie and has a slim profile while still having good knot strength. Here is a link that shows how to tie it: Double Uni Knot - How to tie a Double Uni Knot

Good luck,

Chase
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Old 07-25-2012, 05:27 PM
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Default Re: Level leader question - fly sizes

Quote:
I used a leader exactly like that to land those large carp last weekend. Its roughly 4' of 20#, 12-18" of 12#, and 3' of 8#/3x.
What size flies do you (did you) find you can cast with this?

Thanks again all!
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Old 07-25-2012, 07:14 PM
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Default Re: Level leader question - fly sizes

Quote:
Originally Posted by dean_mt View Post
Hold the tags (in teeth) and pull the lines lightly till they just get tight enough .
First hand experience !
Don't use your teeth, use a pair of needle nose..... if you saw my front teeth you'd know why
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