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TnTom 05-13-2009 06:12 PM

Breaking off at the knot
 
I lost 3 really big Greenies yesterday and can only blame myself. It has to be at my knot, leader and tippet (surgeons knot). All three broke off at the knot. Threw my woolly bugger into the downfall, let it sink and stripped, hooked up and each time I got it almost to the boat and when it ran the leader snapped at the knot. Drag was light.
Should I forget the whole taper leader/tippet thing and tie on maybe some #10 mono to my line?
I was using a 7 1/2' 5x leader with 5x ti;pet. I've read somewhere that a bass set-up can be as simple as a piece of mono. Mostly Im thinking about closures, muddlers and woollies.
They looked like maybe 5-7# fish. Whats the right way to set up for Bass?

HookEmHorns 05-13-2009 06:17 PM

Re: Breaking off at the knot
 
Hey TnTom,
I don't know much about the surgeon's knot, but I know how it is having knots in the leader break. I use the same kind of set up that you do with the tapered leader and tippet.
I use a blood knot for mine and have only had it come apart once and that was with a big catfish pulling on it.
Another suggestion would be to make sure that you lubricate the knot before you tighten it. I didn't used to and now that I do, I kind of notice a stronger knot.

Hopefully what little I do know can help you some.

HookEmHorns

Davo 05-13-2009 07:06 PM

Re: Breaking off at the knot
 
TnTom

My first suggestion is go to a 3x leader at least. I fish streamers 75-80% of the time and have never used smaller than a 3x. Nowadays I use a 3ft butt section of 20lb mono and add a 3ft section of 14lb mono which i connect to the fly. I no longer break fish off. All of my fishing is for trout. Heavy leader really does not bother the fish at all when stripping streamers, so there is no need to go light. It is a bit annoying trying to break off snags with the heavy line, but you won't be frustrated by lost fish.

Jakeway 05-13-2009 07:21 PM

Re: Breaking off at the knot
 
Bass with streamers and sink tip lines I use 18" 20# mono and 18" 12 or 10# mono. Tied with blood knot, if those break, you've got bad (old?) mono or are tightening the know without lube (spit) and you're burning the knot.

For floatign line, use a 7.5 ft BASS leader or 1X trout leader. No need for tippet until the leader gets to about 5 feet, then tie on 12# tippet with blood knot.

Rip Tide 05-13-2009 07:30 PM

Re: Breaking off at the knot
 
5x is way too light for bass.
With 'official' fly fishing tippet don't go lighter than 2x
I use regular mono myself.
When fishing poppers, I like 6-7' of level 12-15# mono.
For a longer, tapered leader, I use a three part leader of 60% butt, 20% mid, and 20% tippet and I usually build my leaders 100 inches just to make it simple.
I use a 40# butt, a 25# mid, and a 12# tippet on an 8 or 9 wt line but you may want to go lighter
Try 60' of 30# for the butt, 20' of 15# for the mid and 20' of 8-10 for the tippet section

dshort 05-13-2009 07:40 PM

Re: Breaking off at the knot
 
5x is not too light to land a 7lb bass but heavier leaders and tippet make more sense because the big flies you are using will be easier to cast. Are you using fluorocarbon or mono leaders and tippets? I've had some bad experiences with cheap fluoro tippet trying to save a buck. With one brand in particular, I could barely cinch down a knot without breaking it, no matter how much I wet it. I ended up throwing away about 5 spools because they were just worthless. I would go to 2 or 3x with good quality leaders and tippet and make sure you wet those knots before cinching them down.

Hardyreels 05-13-2009 07:55 PM

Re: Breaking off at the knot
 
Tom,

I use nothing lighter than 8lb fluorocarbon and more often 12lb. These are for streamer fishing trout. I use a level length of material, no taper and I never would attach a tippet to a leader with a surgeon's knot. Learn to tie a good blood knot if you need to connect tippet material.

Ard

TnTom 05-13-2009 08:37 PM

Re: Breaking off at the knot
 
Tied some blood knots and its simple enough. Knot sure how I came into using the double surgeons to tie on the tippet. After yesterday I'll stick to the blood knot and heavier leader.
Thanks for all the options I'll definitely try the different combos.

Tracker12 05-14-2009 06:34 AM

Re: Breaking off at the knot
 
I use a double surgeon knot all the time and never have a problem. I would take the advice given and use a stronger line. No reason to fish 5X for warm water fish.

Davo 05-14-2009 06:38 AM

Re: Breaking off at the knot
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracker12 (Post 59783)
I use a double surgeon knot all the time and never have a problem. I would take the advice given and use a stronger line. No reason to fish 5X for warm water fish.

Got to agree on the surgeon knot. I'm ussually tying on new tippet for one client while keeping the boat in position for the other one. I have no problem with breakage and it is fast and easy.


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