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Warmwater Fly Fishing Bass, Bream, Perch, etc...

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Old 01-30-2011, 08:03 PM
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Default Diver Dan, to the white courtesy phone....

Diver Dan, to the white courtesy phone, please....

Alright,others are welcome to chime in. Critique, please:

Click the image to open in full size.

Not new to deer hair, just new to trimming sliders-- How do you get the 'collar' less bulky? Does it even matter?

Input welcome.

Thanks

T
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:41 PM
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Default Re: Diver Dan, to the white courtesy phone....

T,

Others are better at this style than I but you have a good looking start as far as I can say.

Ard
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Old 01-30-2011, 09:37 PM
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Default Re: Diver Dan, to the white courtesy phone....

Pretty good start on it. It made me laugh when I saw the title of the thread. You may want to start putting a mono weed gaurd on them. Even if you don't plan to toss them into the weeds, it keeps the tail from wrapping the hook. when you do the collars, a good trick is to use the ends of the hair as a guide, and clip around just deep enough to define the edge. Then push the hair to the back, pinching it between your fingers. Cut the hair down toward the hook shank following the radius you created with the previous cut. Brush the hair back up with your fingers, and then do the final trim. This gives you a near perfect collar and back of the head.

On the front of the head, I do the very bottom edge with a pair of good scissors one side at a time, to define the shape I want, then follow it around till you meet the other side. This is just the rough cut. I then Carefully bend a razor blade between my fingers, and then going from the fron to the back, push the razor blade into the hair. It will come out pretty much perfect everytime.

The first thing however, is to take the razor blade and do the bottom, second the front of the fly, third the collar and back of the head. If you put legs on the fly, be really carefull not to chop them off with the razor blade. It is very unforgiving, and that includes with your fingers. Notice on this fly how clean the hair is trimmed. Razor blade!
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 01-30-2011, 09:52 PM
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Default Re: Diver Dan, to the white courtesy phone....

Man, I thought mine was looking pretty good-- until you put yours up there.... LOL

Thanks for the weed guard/ tail material tip-- didn't think about that.

A few other questions: Do you head cement the finished product? On poppers/ chuggers I almost always cement the whole bottom-- unless I want the hollow hairs to take on water to ride a little lower in the film. If you cement-- where? bottom?, nose?, just your thread wraps? etc. I'd assume with a slider, you don't want to 'close off' the hairs on the bottom????

I did mine without looking at a pattern of any sort-- is the shape of your head preferred? (Yours has the profile of the toe of a pair of oxford shoes.... Mine has just a wedge shape...) and why?

You can rest on your laurels, it'll take me another 15 or 20 years to be able to turn out sliders like yours...

Thanks Again for the input.

T.
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Old 01-30-2011, 10:27 PM
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Default Re: Diver Dan, to the white courtesy phone....

I'm not good at describing things this late at night, but there is a way to hold the hair so that the tips are pointing towards the bend of the hook, so that your first bunch of hair or two that you tie in have the tips heading toward the bend. You can carefully trim so that the tips provide the rearward taper, then you can start to stack hair more normally. I'll try to upload a pic after this. (DiverDan beat me to the response with a gorgeous example. bass flies are trimmed differently from this fly, but he gives you just what you need for an example. This is a great salmon fly, though.)
But you've got a great start that will hook fish for sure.
Gary

---------- Post added at 11:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:22 PM ----------

here's some flies I tie for atlantic salmon that have the collar I'm talking about in the post above:
[IMG]Click the image to open in full size.[/IMG]
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Old 01-30-2011, 11:00 PM
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Default Re: Diver Dan, to the white courtesy phone....

Quote:
Originally Posted by raindogt View Post

A few other questions: Do you head cement the finished product?
T.
I used to cement the whole bottom all of the time. I still do on some just when I feel like it. I think it makes them a bit tougher, but I don't see where it makes them work any different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raindogt View Post

If you cement-- where? bottom?, nose?, just your thread wraps? etc
T.
I use head cement in the thread everytime I do a clump of hair. If I'm spinning it's after every clump, or if I'm stacking, after every color series. I toss a half hitch on the thread to keep it packed, and then dab cement.

As for the head and thread on the weed gaurd, I use 5 min. epoxy. I use these where we have a pile of Pike, and they love them. I use them for Pike. They have really choppy teeth. 5 min. epoxy keeps them intact way longer than head cement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raindogt View Post

is the shape of your head preferred? (Yours has the profile of the toe of a pair of oxford shoes.... Mine has just a wedge shape...) and why?
I think the head shape I use here is a good one to help push water. Makes them a tad splashier. The collar does a lot too, and sometimes I do 5 min epoxy the front of the collar to make it a tad stiffer. At least I used to more often. Depends on how much 5 min. epoxy is left when I get done doing heads. I've become better at mixing an amount with less left over. The head shape you have here will work also. It may make it dive faster and splash less. I'm pretty sure it will push less water, and fish have a lateral line that helps them zero in on stuff pushing water. I think you will get more hits, especially in water with less than good visibility going a tad less streamlined with the head.


I hope this helps, and if you have any more questions, I'll be happy to help if I can.
Dan
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Old 01-31-2011, 08:54 PM
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Default Re: Diver Dan, to the white courtesy phone....

I decided to show how I do the weed gaurds, or at least one version. The fly I'm showing this on is my improved version of the Reynold's Pike Fly. I tied it on a Mustad 37187 size 1/0 hook.

First I tied on a piece of 30lb. mono, keeping it to the back of the bend. 5min. epoxy the thread so toothy stuff can't kill it.
Click the image to open in full size.

Next I tie on the magnum zonker strip tail, then Marabou color accent, then flash, then palmer cross cut rabbitup to 1/4" from the eye. (More info than really needed for weed gaurd method) Pull the mono up through eye adjusting it for the final location, and make a few wraps. Make sur you leave about 1/4" clearance between the hook and mono on a fly this size.
Click the image to open in full size.

Pull the mono on top of the eye back toward the tail of the fly and make some wraps to hold it in place.
Click the image to open in full size.

On most flies you just finish the head after cutting the excess mono off, whip finish and cement it. On this fly though, I build up the thread to fit the inside diameter of a craft heart bead a tad loosely. I then make a batch of 5 min. epoxy, rough up the eye area on the bead, epoxy the eyes on, epoxy the thread head on the fly, and push the bead in place.
Click the image to open in full size.

I also do a double mono weed gaurd. It starts off with thinner mono, and I do a small ball of thread on the bend of the hook in order to spread the mono. The mono is tied to the sides of the hook instead of the back. It is other than that, done the same way. You can see the double mono weed gaurd on this fly;
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 01-31-2011, 10:23 PM
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Default Re: Diver Dan, to the white courtesy phone....

Many, Many thanks. This probably should've been put into the flies forum, but I figured that being warmwater flies discussed this would be a good spot for it.

gonna spend some more time at the vise tomorrow-- I'll report back. Thanks again for all of the help.

You's the Dan! Oh, wait-- I mean; You's the Man!
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Old 02-01-2011, 09:34 AM
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Default Re: Diver Dan, to the white courtesy phone....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diver Dan View Post
I then Carefully bend a razor blade between my fingers, and then going from the fron to the back, push the razor blade into the hair. It will come out pretty much perfect everytime.

The first thing however, is to take the razor blade and do the bottom, second the front of the fly, third the collar and back of the head. If you put legs on the fly, be really carefull not to chop them off with the razor blade. It is very unforgiving, and that includes with your fingers. Notice on this fly how clean the hair is trimmed. Razor blade!
Click the image to open in full size.
Good Lord that's impressive!

Have you tried using this tool?

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:01 PM
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Default Re: Diver Dan, to the white courtesy phone....

Never tried, or even seen that tool. Looks good though. I use a couple of things. The finger nails of my index finger and thumb, a big brass packer I have, and for flies with smaller eyes on the hook, an old ball point pen tube. The pen tube makes a good packer, half hitch tool, and with a small piece of the hook side of stick-on velcro, a pretty good dubbing brush as well.
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