What is Happening to the Kings on the Kenai River River

ejsell

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That's an incredible fish and a great article. I've never landed a King but have hooked into a few and can't imagine the power that fish must have had.

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Ard

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That pretty well covers the topic I think Larry. When I first fished the river in 1989 they were still present but things have changed dramatically. I've read a lot, talked with the regional fisheries biologist and know some guys who work down there fishing. Everything points not only over fishing but a selective harvest of the largest fish. It's just the way it is, the picture showing the crowding down at the mouth.......... That's a very good example of why I stay out in the boonies and don't go down there to fish myself. I believe that when I took the guides certification course down there at the Peninsula Collage there were just over 400 registered guides on the Kenai. That was 4 years ago, I never have worked there, I just wanted the credentials so I took the course.

Good post and part of my reasons for being a keep them wet C&R fisherman out here.
 

ia_trouter

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Mankind doing what it does best, wiping out a resource

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Unfortunately I agree with you. The legal dip netting is particularly disturbing to me. I see no redeeming skill set being developed, or even a hobby in that method. Reminds me some of darkhouse spearing. Let's eradicate the best of the gene pool the only time it is easy.
 

mcnerney

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Unfortunately I agree with you. The legal dip netting is particularly disturbing to me. I see no redeeming skill set being developed, or even a hobby in that method. Reminds me some of darkhouse spearing. Let's eradicate the best of the gene pool the only time it is easy.
Dewayne: I agree, when I lived in Alaska I felt that there was no real reason to allow dip netting, especially on the Kenai. I think if they are going to continue that practice they need to make it a lottery system so they can control the numbers instead of letting anybody and everybody slaughter the resource.
 

Ard

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The dip net personal use fishery attracts what I could only call the good, the bad and the ugly. I've never participated in the Kenai thing but have seen things that boggle the mind on the one and only time I drove over there to see what it was all about. I have used other personal use fisheries in the state and can also say that while there I've seen it all. Even with a most liberal household limit of 25 sockeye for single person and an additional ten fish for each additional member of the household there are arrests made every year for poaching. Inconceivable I know but I have seen people take way more than could be justified. I have never taken what would be considered our household limit. Thirty fish seems quite enough. Ever since I began using this privilege I have released all female fish, last season I released all females as well as 2 king salmon unharmed and I really mean unharmed. I had to cut and then repair my net in order to release a king without damage to the fish.

It takes all kinds, like everything else in life some will abuse any and every privilege granted to them. I can't stop any of the bad things I witness every year, I'm just a citizen and getting into a situation with a law breaker in remote locations is not a smart thing to do.

Incidentally, I entered some additional observations about king salmon on the blog here. I didn't want to hijack the thread from the original article, you may find some similarities in what I wrote.

Ard
 

ia_trouter

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Here comes a thread derail Larry. :)

I have no problem with spin fisherman harvesting a legal limit. There is some amount of perseverance involved. You are still a sportsman in my mind, even if I think they over harvest when they can.

Every region of the country has some crazy easy method to target the most elite fish in the watershed. In the upper Midwest it is dark house spearing. Drag a shack on the ice to make it dark, cut a hole in ice, place a decoy and wait for a huge pike to show up. They are lethargic in the near freezing water and move slow. Then stab the largest you can with a spear (basically a large frog gig). There is no catch and release. For your minimal trouble you can eat a 20yr old 40" fish. Actually you can't anymore because there is only one lake out of the 13,000 lakes in Minnesota left with a reasonable shot at a 40" fish. There used to be 100s of lakes where you could chase a trophy not so long ago. They have slot limits now that the truly elite fish are already gone. When nobody desires to spend tourism dollars in AK anymore they will finally eliminate the easy salmon methods. Then wait a generation for some hope of recovery.
 

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Ard

I don't have a problem with dip netting on the Copper river, that river is so silty that fishing of any kind is extremely difficult, but the Kenai is a totally different resource that needs more protection. When I lived in Alaska I was totally floored when I learned that they allowed dip netting there at the mouth of the river, and Alaska Fish and Game wonders what is happening to the fish!
 

Ard

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I am in agreement Larry, although I'm not a person to bet on things I would risk that a great many who do it (dip net) do not know the difference between a Sockeye, a king or a silver. Lots of kings get killed and as I said, may be willing to bet on that one.
 

ejsell

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Just watched the second episode of "Monster Fish" on Netflix. The host was in search of one of your giant kings. He covered several rivers systems including the Kenai. I thought dip netting was something completely different until seeing that episode and that's just crazy. The guy he ends up with is hoping to limit out at 55 fish in one day. Is that the yearly limit?
 

Ard

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Although I don't know if it will ever change it currently stands at 25 for head of household and ten for each additional family member. As I said earlier (I think) I use a more remote river and take 30 males per season. Thirty good sockeye are a lot of fish. During the course of the months following the catch we do use them all but it requires a conscious effort to eat fish. There are just 2 of us in this home.
 

ia_trouter

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Just watched the second episode of "Monster Fish" on Netflix. The host was in search of one of your giant kings. He covered several rivers systems including the Kenai. I thought dip netting was something completely different until seeing that episode and that's just crazy. The guy he ends up with is hoping to limit out at 55 fish in one day. Is that the yearly limit?
Here comes a rant............ :)

This statement will likely be controversial to some, but if it is indeed legal to harvest 50+ fish in one day for a family of 4, I find that very disturbing. Hit the peak run and take all you can with little effort. It's an Alaskan bounty, and a prize for living there. I do get that part. I also have absolutely no problem with native Alaskan's who have survived there for 1000s of years taking a larger share than someone as fortunate as I am allowed. But at the end of the day what is the point of limiting spin and fly anglers if you are going to slaughter them with dip nets? As Ard said, during the frenzy you know damn well a lot of late run Kings are also hitting the freezer by accident, or not quite by accident.

Folks pay $500+ for a license and travel to Iowa for a huge whitetail. I am a native Iowa and I deserve my share first right?. They should allow me to use claymore mines and get a dozen or so on opening day. :rolleyes: We could eradicate them in two seasons and fill five freezers with meat that will freezer burn and be wasted.
 

Ard

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Oh I have no problem with that train of thought, regarding the sockeye run only. However I can see where any tinkering with the rod & reel limits could make the already complex regulations even more confusing.

During the peak of the dip net opening they generally raise the rod & reel limit to 6 sockeye per day. Because Kenai sockeye are larger than most others I've ever seen, six makes quite a haul. If I need fish I go down there and camp for three days, this allows you to come home with 18 big boys.

Trying to regulate this once the practice has become an annual ritual would be hopeless. I can name several rivers that (if I were King) I would protect hen fish. There would be no killing of hens period. The problem lies in that many people can't tell the difference between a male & a hen. Many people I've ran into on rivers can't identify the different species; Silver vs. Sockeye vs. small King vs. bright Steelhead. One can only guess that summer run steelhead are regularly killed innocently by those who think they are a sockeye salmon.

Pictures always help; below is a male sockeye of about 5.5 to 6 pounds. He took a freight train and ended up dead as seen on the shore here.


This is a bright steelhead.


And this a very bright but small king;


I turst you can see how unless you were handling these species often it could be difficult for the weekend warrior to tell what the heck they just caught.

The hen thing just makes sense to a layman like myself. Lets say there is a river that used to experience a silver salmon return of 35 - 50,000 fish annually. Lets say that that river now receives roughly 10,000 total on average over the past 5 years. Since silvers are a 4 year fish, meaning that from the time a pair spawn and successfully leave a nest filled with fertilized eggs it will be 4 years before the surviving adults from that spawning return to the river. Once you have reached a 5 year average of 10 thousand returning fish it may be pointless to hope to see the glory days of 35 or more thousand. That would consider all things remaining as they are, commercial fishing, natural predication and nest mortality.

So, because I am interested in seeing the numbers stay at least at ten thousand or possibly increasing somewhat it would only make sense to not kill the hens. As you know, when dealing with things out of ones personal sphere of influence what you want and what you get are two entirely different matters.
 

ia_trouter

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I do enjoy these threads. The harvesting rules are so complex in AK vs the lower 48. I know AK Fish and Game must be under intense pressure to keep everyone happy. It just seems like an impossible task, finding a balance that keeps sport fishing, commercial and the natives happy without threatening the future. I'll follow along and hope the weather patterns cooperate for the rest of my fishing days. From another angle, 100 years ago we would just kill them all and wonder what happened later. I am impressed with the attempt to manage. Manned fish count weirs are evidence they care to preserve the resource. In fairness I am not aware of any other state where anything like that that happens.
 

Ard

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For those who have seen the pictures of the activity at the tideline of the Kenai this may look a little different.



There were two people up river from us but it seems a little more difficult where we go.

Nancy with a nice male, we kill them instantly once caught and release the hens of course.


It's a different kind of environment and an angry river that has claimed more than a few lives.





End of the morning and ready to get to head for home.
 
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