Outlaws, we've got them.

[Ard]

I don't fish as often as I used to but I'm OK with it because it's my choice. I've fished a lot, moreover I've fished for salmon a lot and it's pretty much like riding a bike in that you don't forget how to cast or swing the fly.

Why I don't go as often is partly due to water conditions and abundance issues with the rivers and fish. When a river or 2 are high and muddy that condition tends to funnel all those people desperate to catch a salmon onto whatever river isn't high and muddy. Crowding isn't my thing, it wasn't my thing in Pennsylvania and nothing's changed in the past 14 years here.

When there's crowding you have no idea what kind of people you'll encounter and I've run across some bad ones. The Link I'm posting has nothing to do with salmon but it does reflect on what I mean when I say "no idea what kind of people you'll encounter"...…

| Time

Whether that just represents the behavior of a very small number of persons or not those are exactly the type I don't want to come across while I'm fishing. Sadly I have found gross examples of fish poaching and did on each occasion report the persons I witnessed breaking the laws. I thought it apropos that those two fine examples of the type I want to avoid were caught on camera complete with audio.

 

[mcnerney]

Ard

Wow, that was a sad story to read, hard to believe that those two would be so callous!

 

[kentuckysteve]

I don't want to encounter this type either.I think all poachers should be banned from ever getting a license and every time they get caught poaching there should be automatic jail time and their fine and sentence should be double what it was the previous time caught.I am glad they got caught!

 

[Ard]

Hi guys,

I read another write up on it that went into detail more, they used a Blue Water boat to get out there and they towed that big boat to Whittier with a truck. Both of those vehicles were seized as well as the guns used. I can only hope one of our 'Conservative' judges doesn't allow the felony charges to be plea bargained down to a slap on the wrists.

This whole state is conservative, all our senators and congress men are conservative everyone here votes to the right but somehow these cases always get reduced to hardly more than a speeding ticket.

I would be happy to know that neither of them would be able to buy or carry firearms ever again. That would seem fair to me, crime involving a firearm right?

I get really tired of these cases.

 

[rfb700]

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be the political will to protect our natural resources. Enforcement is under funded and hap hazard at best.

Even though sport fishing and hunting is a fairly large industry it seems it's interests are largely ignored. Protection of the land and water will always take a back seat to resource development by other industries

I have felt for a while that we are approaching the end for any sport based on the harvest of wild game and fish. Just too many people and not enough room.

Everywhere is accessible these days. And because of that the resources are dwindling even in places like Mongolia and Northern Russia and Canada Couple that with the problems associated with climate change and its a perfect storm.

That's not to say we don't fight the good fight still. But it's simply a delaying action now with no real hope of victory.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

 

[karstopo]

It’s always interesting to know what people do when they think nobody is watching. I think there’s a lot more poaching going on than we know, but game cameras are good about catching this activity. My cousins operate a lot of game cameras as part of their business of nuisance animal control. These cameras send real time photos of poachers via a cell tower signal. My cousins are after animals like alligators and feral pigs, but they can and do let stake holders and LEOs know about the poaching activity.

I know there’s been felony convictions here in our state on poaching and other fish and game violations. People have actually gone to jail, some for extended periods for illegal hunting and fishing activities. Plus, they are obligated to pay fines and restitution for the game or fish they took from the people of Texas. For example, in 2016 dollars one illegally taken 29” redfish is worth $449.77 in restitution plus a possible $500 dollar fine.

It’s pretty sh**ty what that father and son did to those bears so I’d be great with them getting the maximum punishment allowed by law. I hope the law is written to allow a stiff fine, restitution, revocation of hunting privileges and maybe a little time in the cooler to think about what they did. They are no doubt sneaky thieves who stole a shared valuable resource from the people of Alaska and they are also pretty cruel and heartless.

 

[ddb]

Another down side to the story.... The Washington Post highlighted it today as I'sure other anti-hunting media have done or will do.

ddb

 

[Ard]

Groups will spin the story to support whatever their agenda may be but the fact is these people were not hunting. This was a crime involving the use of firearms period and should be treated as such.

Palmer is about 20 miles from my home, this dynamic duo had to pull a blue water boat from Palmer to Whittier a distance of roughly 115 miles one way. Then they had to launch said boat and cross Prince William Sound to Ester Island, this isn't something you try in a Jon Boat unless you have a death wish. Then equipped with cross country skies they traversed snowy landscapes to find this bears den upon which they summarily preformed an execution style shooting of a protected animal and its two cubs. Sow bears with cubs are protected in the area in question.

To top it all of without their knowing of the video tapes of their crime they lied to investigators about the incident and didn't turn in the collar and hide until legal bear season had opened.

We can say what we want regarding crime but I believe that this type of persons are capable of worse activities. This being just one isolated incident in which there seems irrefutable evidence of their crime. I don't want to think about either of these people being able to stop by Sportsman's Wearhouse or Cabelas and picking up firearms legally. I don't want to think that this father and son could be in the boat that has encroached on me while I have clients fishing and that they may be armed. I have seen my share of these knuckle dragging morons here, enough to last a lifetime believe me. Rampant disregard for the environment and any and all creatures they encounter including humans seems to be the way some roll here.

The sides of every major road in this part of Alaska are ripped into either a muddy or dusty wasteland depending on weather conditions. Ripped into wastelands by a nearly unimaginable number of 4 wheelers and Side X Side ORV's. The destruction is mind boggling, the noise a disturbance. Any small stream most of which are nursery waters for salmon represent an excellent place to go "Mudding" which is the official sport to the knuckle dragger. This area does not have a championship football or basketball high school team. None of these idiots have grown up to become motocross champions. Almost daily I see some young man with an infant sitting in front of him with the baby's hands on the controls of a 4 wheeler. The next generation of destroyers being reared and trained by the current generation of destroyers.

Our bike paths are empty because only a few old men like myself even ride a bicycle. The paved trails act as speedways for 4 wheelers and the landscapes that the state spent millions to grade and seed with wild flowers are torn and rutted into the wastelands I've already lamented over. The streams have signage warning against operating motorized vehicles in salmon spawning areas so the signs and the poles they are erected on are ran over and pressed into the mud. The stream beds turn into a myriad of ruts, each one carrying some of the streams flow, there is no main channel in many.

I could go on and on about what I see here, some may mistake me for a granola crunching tree hugging sissy when they hear or read my laments. Those people couldn't be farther from the truth of fact. I can be as crude as anyone you ever met and sometimes just as ornery but just like William Munny in that movie "my wife, she changed me, I ain't like that no more". Not until I'm confronted by knuckle draggers, that's when the stranger lies just below my semi calm façade.

I've been telling people who inquire about coming here the same thing since I joined this forum 11 years ago. I tell them not to wait, I tell them that this isn't like a bottle of good red wine getting better with age. It isn't getting better, in just the 14 seasons I've lived here things have degraded at break neck speed and continue even as I write. This is what's left of the wild west and many who come here have little regard for nature or the regulations in place to protect nature.

This is where I'll finish up I guess, unless it becomes unbearable and then we'll find a place to live in the lower 48. Somewhere where there are more than 5 wildlife troopers to patrol an area the size of Rhode Island maybe...……..

 

[spm]

Ard,
As usual, I'm late responding. That is a really sad story. Too bad the bears couldn't shoot back. I hope they lose everything.

steve

 

[Ard]

Hey Steve,

Don't let the post right above yours stop you from ever planning to come here, you just need someone who knows how to keep you away from all the negative stuff.

 

[ddb]

Ard,

The despoiling of nature is really sad. Particularly so, in Alaska the last vestige of really large scale true wild we have left. The combo of boredom, booze, and commercialization overlaid on native Yahoo-ism and lagging conservation priorities looks pretty grim,

But here's one experience that gives some hope that the damage cane be reversed.

I first came south to VA from MI nearly 60 years ago. The local 'culture' was replete with the God-given right -- freely used -- to drop anything unwanted anymore from hand whenever and wherever you were at the time. Litter -- a large proportion in the form of beer cans -- along highways, stream banks, lake surfaces, was ubiquitous. On a day of fishing you could easily spend much of your time and fill a lot of the boat with trash. Today that is a rarity and we and our kids are way better for it.

There even seems to be a slow but sure disappearance of houses in rural areas with old refrigerators, car hulks, and rust claimed far implements in the front yard.

Now if someone would knock down the cell towers and stop us from paving over the whole damned state....

ddb

 

[plecain]

I'd hang these guys from the highest tree (after a fair trial, of course).
However, I'd hate to see this forum head off into the conservative/liberal argument realm.
In my part of the world it's the 'liberal' judges who are the ones freeing or hand-slapping criminals for far worse than wildlife offenses. That's probably because here those judges far outnumber the 'conservative' ones.
Again, let's please don't start down the political path in this forum.

 

[pcolapaddler]

I would agree. I'm on forums where discussions devolve into conservative vs liberal and soon the discussion ends and name calling begins.

The crime that was committed against those animals makes one sad and angry.


Sent from an unnamed device running an undisclosed OS via a third party application.

 

[ia_trouter]

I would agree. I'm on forums where discussions devolve into conservative vs liberal and soon the discussion ends and name calling begins.

The crime that was committed against those animals makes one sad and angry.


Sent from an unnamed device running an undisclosed OS via a third party application.

Agreed, the issue should have zero to do with whether you are conservative or liberal. Most here should agree that poaching is poaching and it doesn't matter how you vote.

 

[Ard]

I think that I should make clear what I meant and I was not making any political statement at all. While I have lived here I have seen egregious crimes handled in a very disturbing manner by the courts. Our courts seem to throw the book at some things but wildlife violations many times are pled down to the level of a parking ticket. Thus far there has been no argument over politics, I unfortunately used a word describing judges that was just that a word. The rest of my comments and those of others didn't include that word and I'll edit it from the original post.

You could say that I have a different set of circumstances than many members because of my residency. I live here and I am seeing this wonderful place torn down around me and I get a little wound up about it at times. In the future I'll abstain from posting this type of topic.

Rather than cover my transgression by deleting what I said I'll just close the thread. I'm sorry if I have caused this discussion to have some sort of political bias. That was not intended I was just stating that in a state where values are held high there seems to be little appetite for punishing wildlife crimes to the full extent of our laws. Time will tell on this one.